Whole notes and whole pauses
In 4/4 bars that have not been touched the pause sits nicely in the horizontal center, but do anything to that bar and even Ctrl Z will not restore the center position of such a pause. What is there a cure for this behaviour?
Similarly, whole notes, i.e. the only occupant of a 4/4 bar insists of leaving space to the right for what (see the last bar in the attached score)? Is there a non-convoluted way to center such notes, provided it would go along with the rest of the system?
Thanks in advance, Elmar
| Attachment | Size |
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| Tenebrae_in_E_Flat - Johann Michael Haydn.mscz | 42.06 KB |
Comments
There are whole rests and full measure rests, they look identical but differ in whether they are left aligned or centered.
See https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/measure-rests
There's no such thing as a full measure note though, just whole notes, and those are left aligned
In reply to There are whole rests and… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks Jojo,
Shame about the full measure note though.
I'll check this out in the morning, currently I'm 'edited out' ;o)
In reply to There are whole rests and… by Jojo-Schmitz
Earlier engravers had no qualms about whole notes centered in measures (see attached) - maybe this should be in the MuseScore wishlist.
In reply to Earlier engravers had no… by elmar@vonmural…
In 4/4 whole notes are centred if they are the only thing in the measure, otherwise they must be aligned with other notes on the first beat and that is what is demonstrated in your example. Compare for example measures 9 and 17.
In general notes that start sounding at the same time should be aligned vertically.
In reply to In 4/4 whole notes are… by SteveBlower
Whole notes are never centered
Look closer at that PDF, they are all either left aligned or a bit left of the center
Hi Elmar,
There's a good reason whole notes aren't centered anymore.
Whole-bar rests don't occur on any beat, because they don't actually "occur"—they indicate the bar is empty, that nothing occurs on any beat. That's why they're centered.
Whole notes do occur on a beat. In a 4/4 bar, they must occur on beat 1, because they're held for all four beats. That's what placing them on beat 1 means. It's consistent with the formatting of other bars.
The example you cited, with centered whole notes, is from a time before engravers realized the value of making this distinction between whole rests and whole notes.
In modern notation, engravers have always considered it important to avoid what they called "unnecessary eye-jumping".
If you're trying to recreate an earlier notation style for historical purposes, that's neat. But as someone who prepares music for people to play, I don't see any advantage in requiring them to do the extra work of looking to the center of a bar to start playing it, unlike every other kind of bar on the page.
Sorry, I'm not trying to be bossy, or a know-it-all... But we do discuss the many aspects of notation here, including what makes it easiest to read, so this seemed worth mentioning. Cheers!
In reply to Whole-bar rests don't occur… by Andy Fielding
And even in that example they are not really centered, but (slightly) left of the center
In reply to And even in that example… by Jojo-Schmitz
Yikes! Does that mean we take a breath before playing them? 😆
But see https://musescore.org/en/node/331065, https://musescore.org/en/node/332827, https://musescore.org/en/node/284885
In reply to But see https://musescore… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks all,
I accept and now I understand the logic of placing whole or other notes on the first beat of its duration - makes sense.
On a slightly different matter: Look at the last system of the Tenebrae, in bar 53 of the piano part, both rests from the imploded voice parts have come through (one I made invisible). However, in bar 55 only one rest shows in each staff. I thought this may be due to the whole measure rest but the rest 'imported' from Soprano had become a regular rest, so, where did the Alto rest end up? They are not superimposed on each other and anyway, the lower Piano staff also shows only the one rest. The same applies to rests 23 and 31 but then why not to bar 15? It's nothing earth-shattering but certainly quirky.
In reply to Thanks all, I accept and… by elmar@vonmural…
There's a staff property that takes care of collapsing matching measures. Before that existed, making the voice 2 one invisible had the same effect
In reply to Thanks all, I accept and… by elmar@vonmural…
Elmar: I'm sorry if I came off preachy. (I really must watch the coffee intake before I come over here!) Everyone's free to notate however they wish, of course. And there are legit ways to notate in historical ways—traditions that shouldn't be pooh-poohed without considering the person's intentions who's emulating them.
We discuss nuances like these on the chance we may be helpful. But it also helps us examine how we ourselves notate, and why. Till I read your topic here, I never thought about why whole notes were placed where they were, and I'm glad to have a better understanding of that now—so thanks!
In reply to Elmar: I'm sorry if I came… by Andy Fielding
Thanks Andy, no need to apologise, it has been enlightening and somehow goes along with my wanting to make choir scores more singer friendly than printer/engraver convenient. Thankfully with today's technology this is so much easier to achieve than in the (good?) old days of lead type. Admittedly, my way uses more paper in the end product, but I like to think I've reduced the falling out of already sparse hair, or turning less hair to grey or white of lay choristers like me.