Ties from above ending in note head

• Jun 26, 2016 - 13:06

It seems almost all ties from above are ending in the following note head. I have to correct them all.
Perhaps it has to do with the Gonville font? Schermafbeelding 2016-06-26 om 14.03.16.png


In reply to by SRH

it certainly doesn't for me. Please attach the score and precices steps to reproduce. Alse mention MuseScore version and OS.

Ah, now I see. And it does this with Bravura and Emmentaler too, so is not related to that.
Still, if you zoom in enough and are not in edit mode, you see that there is a distance between tie and head in all 3 fonts, with very slight differences

I am not understanding the problerm. Can you post the actual score, and steps to reproduce? You are talking about a note turning red while editing the tie, or talking about the default placement of the tie? The default placement should be very standard in most cases.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

When I double click a tie and start moving the right handle the note after it turns red when I get too close. The default placement of ties with curve upwards is almost always so close (at the right side) that the note after turns red (during edit of course). So I just want to say that in these cases the ties are too close, in any case closer than in all other situations.

In reply to by SRH

I don't see notes turning red - they normally turn blue for me. This isn't a bug - it is just how MuseScore shows you what note you are proposing attaching to. Maybe something specific about your configuration makes this be red instead of blue, or maybe it is something about your score in particular. If you feel there is a problem having to do with editing ties, please post the specific score you are having problems with, and precise steps to reproduce the problem.

As for the default distance, it looks pretty standard to me in the cases I have tested. Depending on stem direction, tie direction, note spacing, and number of notes in the chords, spacing can vary, but it seems to be within the normal range for how music has traditionally been engraved and what standard guidelines suggestion. Can you post a specific score where you think it is otherwise, and a source that explains what you think the proper distance shhould be in that context?

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Well, for me it turns red but I don't care which color it is nor do I need help with it. I just wanted to show it is a (minor) error in 2.03 that the ties are really too close at the right hand side and when they curve upwards in many or most cases.

In reply to by SRH

OK, as mentioned above, Gonville does indeed use noteheads just enough larger to noticeably reduce the space. It's still not actually touching, though. Do you have some source for suggesting what you think to be the proper distance? Gould doesn't give any specific recommendation except to say it should "almost touch", which indeed is what we do. Her examples are kind of inconsistent in the exact amount of distance, depending as it must on many factors. But "most" of hers are more distant than these particular examples.

Also, BTW, why do you "have to" use Gonville?

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Forgive the intrusion,
'The extremes of Tie are centered on the note head (in some editions to 0.3s inward);
Chords: 0.3s from the note head;
Chords followed by augmentation dot: after the point at 0.3s.'
(Riffero, Copista di musica digitalizzata, p.85/86)

In reply to by Shoichi

Thanks, that is definitely the type of information we are looking for! However, that covers the "standard" case only - ties opposite the stem. It's the specific case of ties on the stem side, or cases of mixed stems, where this comes up. The mixed case is especially problematic - if you flip the first stem downward in the provided example and let the tie flip below, the tie *does* overlap the second notehead. It's only overlapping the bounding box by 0.15sp, but due to the shape of the notehead - which is "fatter" on the bottom than the top on the left hand side - this causes an overlap.

Potentially, we could overlap by less in the horizontal direction, or we could make the adjustment vertically, or both.

In reply to by Shoichi

FWIW, Gould disagrees. Her rule is that when stems are opposite, the tie goes to the "outside" of the middle line, at least for single-voice music. She specifically recommends against the rule you mention, as it can lead to collisions with flags. The rules change when multiple voices become involved.

As with beaming, this is a complex and subjective issue, with lots of special cases to consider. Luckily, the tie code is easier to understand and modify than the beaming code.

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