custom key signature consisting of a G sharp and D sharp
Hi,
I am trying to compose a piece of music using a G sharp and a D sharp. See uploaded file. It does not make the entered D s become D sharp , same for the G s.
| Attachment | Size |
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| Retribution Fugue.mscz | 6.35 KB |
Comments
Custom key signatures are currently only ornamental. Perhaps someone will make this work properly at some time in the future. The problem arises on how to transpose the key signatures when they are applied to a transposing instrument.
In reply to Custom key signatures are… by mike320
The transportation problem is easily solved by retaining the same note pattern, for example with C scale it is TTSTTTS (T=tone and S=semitone) when you move the notes all up , the same pattern is retained. In My G# D# key I do not have the same TTSTTTS pattern but instead I have (using A as the dominant start note)
A, B , C, D#, , E, F, G#, in other words the pattern TSDSSDS where D represents a 3 semitone jump or difference between notes. So I guess the composer need to supply you with the DO or start note and the pattern covering the 12 semitone octave.
In reply to The transportation problem… by victor pierobon
So if your key of G# & D# were on a C instrument, on a Bb instrument such as a Trumpet or Clarinet, it would transpose to Eb, Ab and F#. The question then becomes, what is the order of such alterations in a key signature? One thing that prevents this from being implemented is that there is no standard to go by. There is no circle of fifth to define the order of the flats and sharps.
In reply to So if your key of G# & D#… by mike320
The cycle of fifths is really referring to chord progressions, although it is coincidentally the pattern of flats and sharps is signatures. The problems of instruments not having certain tones is not a composers problem, ... would have to avoid using those instruments in the compositions. Like I said the solution is simple, just preserve the pattern TSDSSDS where D represents a 3 semitone jump or difference between notes as you shift the notes up or down in semitone steps.
In reply to The cycle of fifths is… by victor pierobon
For this to be implemented as a feature in MuseScore, the people in charge of accepting and writing new code would need some standard to go by. One of the things that would be required is for the key signature to be transposed since it is possible to combine transposing and non transposing instruments in the same score. MuseScore would be required to make a decision on which key signature to use and how to write it. The circle of fifths is what is used to determine the order of flats and sharps in a key signature. I'm not sure which came first, but they are no doubt related.
I suspect that English is not your first language or you misspoke when you said "The problems of instruments not having certain tones is not a composers problem..." Perhaps you mean that IS the composers problem. There are some diatonic instruments that cannot play all notes, but most western instruments are chromatic and others still are microtone. The program must decide how to implement transpositions of the various key signatures. If I were free to make the key signatures I would probably put all used sharps in standard (major scale) order followed by all used flats in standard order. This is only what I would do, not a standard that has been established by practice over time. I have no idea what I would do with the 1/4 tone changes. You haven't mentioned them, but many people want 1/4 tone support, which is very closely related to your request.
In reply to For this to be implemented… by mike320
look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_signature#/media/File:Circle_of_fifth… the key of G with one sharp and D with two sharps, is just the reversal of mine where my g# is for key "F" and my D# for "C" by reversing the sharp used for the key in the circle of fifths (key of G had F# where my F has G sharp instead,,, interesting. Anyway my key signature is derived from renaissance music that did not conform to our "modern" key notations. Don't worry I can work around it and just add the sharps where needed.
In reply to look at https://en.wikipedia… by victor pierobon
I would very much like to see functional custom key signatures. That is why I have been engaged in this discussion. I was hoping perhaps you could suggest an acceptable answer.
I truth I have not personally seen a transposing instrument use a custom key signature. They have all been non transposing, or only transposing in the octave. If someone were to make custom keys functional I would be happy to make the user write the transpose key and apply it to the instrument, otherwise the same key signature would be applied to all instruments without regard to the Concert Pitch button setting, only the notes would be transposed.
In reply to Custom key signatures are… by mike320
Transposition is one issue, how to handle different clefs is another (which line/space to use for each note). They aren't unsolvable problems, but needing to deal with them makes the design and implementation that much more involved, which is why it hasn't yet. I have no doubt it will make the cut some day.
In reply to Transposition is one issue,… by Marc Sabatella
For now, could you make it that custom signature would deactivate the transposition function. Or have the transposition shift the notes up in semitones, as well as the key signature notation. For my D# and G# signature of two sharps containing a melody of
A B C D# E F G# a semitone shift up would result in my melody becoming
A# C C# E F F# A therefore the signature becomes C#, F#, A#of three sharps ... notice that C# and F# are in the same tonal relationship as D# and G#, but we also add another Sharp and A# in the key signature, I am sure that a pattern will emerge in the key signatures as you transpose up in semitones.
The bottom line is that the composer should be assisted in cutting down his writing , i.e. repeating G# and D# in my writing my piece --> the purpose of key signatures.
In reply to For now, could you make it… by victor pierobon
In your example, the transposed notes are A#, B# (C), C# (or Db), D#, E, F, G#. The notes in parentheses would have to go together to avoid accidentals.
As far as the location of which line or space to put a sharp or flat, why not keep the normal lines and spaces for each clef.