Lyrics text properties not working and staff spacing question
Hello, I'm using Musescore 1.1 revision 4611 on Linux Mint 9 Isadora.
After I add lyrics with Ctrl+L, sometimes I want to edit their properties (most importantly position). So I right-click on a piece of lyrics and select Text Properties from the pop-up menu. A window appears, however unfortunately no matter what setting I chose in that window (such as font, size, offset and so on), after I click OK, nothing happens. When I right click and select Text Properties again the default values are still there as if I haven't made a change. So my first question is:
1. Is there some known bug which makes Text Properties completely ineffective or am I doing something wrong?
The reason why I am interested in using the Text Properties, is because I want to be able to change the vertical positioning of the lyrics (in some parts of the score I want to have the lyrics to some of the voices over the staff as opposed to under it). I want to be able to make that change only for a particular staff line, and not the entire document (I know that I can change the position of the lyrics for a particular voice for the entire document by going to Style -> Edit General Style -> Page and and just the Lyrics upper margin to a negative value).
A workaround which I have found is to type the lyrics under the staff, then select all the lyrics by clicking each one of them individually while holding the Ctrl button, so that all of them are selected and then while still holding the Ctrl button down, drag them over the staff. That works fine, however the spacing under to staff remains large, as if the text is still under the staff. So that leads me to my second question:
2. Is there a tool similar to the staff spacer, which makes the distance between two staves smaller as opposed to larger? Again I want to be able to do that only for a particular line in the score and not the entire document (which can be done again via Style -> Edit General Style).
Any answers and suggestions will be greatly appreciated!
Comments
Ad 2: You could insert a vertical frame and resize (double click, arror up) that to have a 'negative' size.
In reply to Ad 2: You could insert a by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks for your quick reply! This works indeed, however it only works to reduce the spacing between systems. It doesn't seem to work to reduce the spacing between stoves within a system, since as far as I know frames cannot be inserted within a system. I guess I didn't formulate my question precisely enough. So are there any suggestions to reduce the spacing between two stoves within a particular system?
In reply to Thanks for your quick reply! by jopeto
Ah, no, I don't think so. There's only global setting for this as far as I know.
In reply to Ah, no, I don't think so. by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks again! If that's indeed the case, being able to locally change the spacing between stoves within a system might be a useful feature to add in future releases.
In reply to Thanks again! If that's by jopeto
believe this would be useful.
An example is if I add lyrics to a part of a work, not all staves need to be the same distance apart in the overall system.
A facility to change distance between staves within a system globally (so staff 1 & staff are *always* further apart than the rest of the staves in the system) is high on my list of wishes as well.
Also, selecting all lyrics for a staff doesn't have to be done one syllable at a time - select one, right click, then "select->all similar elements on same staff". So it's actually not that hard to move things around.
As for text properties, it's not exactly a bug, but an unfortunate aspect of the current implementation that controlling font sizes and positions is a bit inconsistent. What I've been able to figure out is that for "ordinary" text - text that you type directly and it shows up exactly as you type it - you can set properties after the fact via the text properties dialog. But text that is created and/or formatted "on the fly" by MuseScore tends to ignores those settings, and instead always uses the settings in the Style->Text Style, but even then only actually applies those settings when it sees a need to recreate the the text. So often a reload is needed. This applies to lyrics, chord names, measure numbers, page numbers, and maybe a few other elements. Sometimes you might also need to select the elements and hit Ctrl-R to reset their positions before the default is re-applied (dynamics seem to work that way). Sometimes you might actually need to re-type the element (staff names). So a bit of experimentation is in order, but you almost always can get what you want, eventually.
The good news is, for 2.0, text handling seems to have already been very much improved - it's kind of a whole new scheme. The bad news is, that means it's very unlikely we'll see any improvement before then, since any work done would end up being thrown out for 2.0.
In reply to A facility to change distance by Marc Sabatella
I have a similar problem, and i have not been able to find any solution:
I am working on a score for 4 voices and use lyrics. It works OK, except for one issue: Sometimes, when I want to change the lyrics, the new text appears to be written as if it belongs to a second stanza, leaving empty space above it! Now, I can figure out how to move the lyrics closer to the notes - but that leaves the distance between the staffs unaltered - and much too big!
How can I get that staff distance reduced ONLY for those systems where this has been a problem?
In reply to Reducing staff distance after deleting lyrics by mowence
Posting an example would help.
In reply to Reducing staff distance after deleting lyrics by mowence
If new text appears lower than the rest, it probably means you have hit Enter after putting in a lyric syllable.
MuseScore interprets this as "put the next syllable in a new verse lower down".
But as Marc says - if you upload your score here, we can verify if this is what has happened.
In reply to If new text appears lower by ChurchOrganist
That sounds very likely -- how do I undo that?
Here is the score:
http://musescore.com/user/36936/scores/55339 - the problem occurs on pages 24-27 and 34.
In reply to deleting empty space for non-used text by mowence
These seem to have been moved down manually, not via 'return' and at least partly on purpose and for good reason, to give way to notes and hairpins
In reply to These seem to have been moved by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes, I have tried that too, based on the information I got here about adjusting lyrics through using Ctrl - but that does not account for the excessive empty space I really want to get rid of, because I can't print the score with two systems per page, as it is.
In some places, when I use Ctrl to adjust the text, it splits over two different lines, indicating exactly what you explained about it being attributed to several verses.
Pages 24-27 are the worst.
In reply to Yes, I have tried that too, by mowence
1st of all reduce the space setting to 1.45 (2 steps smaller than currently), then all but 3 pages have 2 systems on them
Those 3 pages I don't understend yet, something wierd is going on, wasting space above the piano part for no apparent reason
Edit: this is because you did indeed enter 2 stanzas, but moved the 2nd to above the stave. MuseScore can't deal with that properly, it still reserves the space below the stave.
In reply to 1st of all reduce the space by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes, I figured that too, with the space of 1.450 - I just did not do it until all done, because I don't like having two systems per page when working on the score...
And it is not only above the piano staffs - it is also between the soprano and alto, as well as between the tenor and the bass, although that is less profound and probably won't become a "deal-breaker" for me.
I will be very happy for a solution, as i have spent a lot of time on "trying everything", all in vain... Obviously, I have done something i should not have done - and I don't like to repeat mistakes...
I will have to sign off for the night, though - will be back tomorrow.
Edit: I just saw your edit as I closed... What you suggest cannot explain it all. There is still way too much space between the bass and the piano and between the soprano and the alto, on page 12-13, for instance. The same problem will be present also between the tenor and the bass, where I did the same, but the distance between those two is significantly smaller.
In reply to Yes, I figured that too, with by mowence
remove the lyrics in those pages and you'll see
In reply to remove the lyrics in those by Jojo-Schmitz
I feared that reply.... I will try....
In reply to I feared that reply.... I by mowence
It wasn't as terrible as I feared...
But I think I found how at least how the software works, and WHY I ended up with the miserable result I had.
When I enter lyrics for only some part of a staff, and later want to continue with the remainder, I cannot "start over" with using Ctrl+L - THAT will start a new stanza! Instead, I must click into the existing lyrics and continue those - and no new space is created.
I understand now how my extra space was created.
I would still like to know how I could delete it, though - without deleting ALL the lyrics. I think that's an issue of moving text from one stanza to another... Any clue about how to do that? (Not a major issue, though - don't spend a lot of time on that...)
I also noticed that that space is unaffected of my moving the lyrics around. And I cannot move an entire string above the Staff. THAT only works for one word at a time! After I moved them all, though, I can then adjust them, also above the staff - and none of this will affect the distance between staffs. I realize now that this distance is determined by one thing only: the number of stanzas entered. And that is not only a matter of using ENTER, but also matter of re-starting entering lyrics in the middle of a staff.
I think the lesson learned here is valuable, and I certainly appreciate the help.
I am still undecided about whether to leave the lyrics for the two voices in a staff both under the staff, as they are created (and the space fits) or if I should move the upper voice above the staff... I will chew on that.
In reply to remove the lyrics in those by Jojo-Schmitz
I think I made it. I uploaded the final result, and I got it to fit nicely on 12 pages. Not completely ideal, but workable, I think.
Thanks for the help. I understand what I need to do to avoid this calamity in the future.
Edit: Oh - here is the result:
http://musescore.com/user/36936/scores/55416
In reply to Done! by mowence
Hmm - MuseScore.com seems to have altered the formatting.
I have had trouble with this myself - it can take 3 or 4 uploads of the piece before MuseScore.com will keep it as you laid it out!
In reply to Hmm - MuseScore.com seems to by ChurchOrganist
MuseScore.com has only a subset of fonts. If you use another font, MuseScore.com will replace it by one it has (like any other MuseScore user) and so the spacing of lyrics can be different. See http://musescore.com/help/upload
In reply to MuseScore.com has only a by [DELETED] 5
Even in cases where no non-standard fonts are used, I've found there can be slight differences between systems that affect layout. For scores with lyrics, I have found it wise to set my system distance just a bit bit lower than I actually need (with the page fill rhreshold set to make sure the systems still spread out), or else on upload, I might not get as many systems per page as I did on my own system.
In reply to Hmm - MuseScore.com seems to by ChurchOrganist
I noticed the change - a 13th page was added with just one measure.
I won't bother with that, for now, as I intent to get the score printed on paper anyway, based on keeping only one system per page and then doing some work with scissors to make things fit as I want it, as I now understand the limitations of the software . I uploaded the result to show the staff spacing and the lyrics problem could be solved. I mean, the least I could do in return for the help was to show that I could get things to work, based on the valuable advice - in addition to expressing my heart-felt THANK YOU for all the input that gave me the inspiration I needed...
In reply to deleting empty space for non-used text by mowence
I think the basic problem here is that you are using a closed score format to write for double chorus.
Currently MuseScore cannot handle lyrics above the line - something many of us have been asking for!
IMO the best solution is to rewrite the score in open format with separate staves for SSAATTBB.
This will enable you to get things aligned properly in the first place and you can then go on to condense it into closed score knowing that things have started off in the right places.
HTH
Michael
In reply to I think the basic problem by ChurchOrganist
I don't understand the difference between open and closed scores - could you explain that difference, and how I do this? Does that allow me to move staffs as close to each other as I want, regardless of any past history of extra lyrics?
It sounds like a lot of work, though...
In reply to I don't understand the by mowence
Open score = separate staff for each part, as opposed to combining multiple parts on one staff (closed score) as you have done. Nothing wrong with the latter, but MuseScore does not currently provide great facilities for controlling positioning of lyrics and spacing when you try that.
In reply to Open score = separate staff by Marc Sabatella
OK - thanks - but it would make the work much more tedious, as there really only are some 10% of the systems that require it.. But I see the point in doing it when it is a more profound feature of the work.
In reply to OK - thanks - but it would by mowence
There is a Hide Empty Staves feature (a setting in your General Style) that would allow you to have just four (or whatever) staves for most the chart and then have the additional staves to only show as necessary. But I would agree that even that might seem overkill if it's just a few measures here and there.
In reply to There is a Hide Empty Staves by Marc Sabatella
Yes, I agree - I hoped that there would be a way of FORCING the distance between staffs to what I want it to be regardless of the lyrics and how they were created. I understand now that this force is named "scissors"...
But the tip about not showing empty staffs is of good value for that too! Thanks for that.
In reply to Balancing the efforts... by mowence
I agree that an option to force staff distance to be honored even in the presence of lyrics would be most welcome, and probably not very hard to implement. With such an option, it would be up to the user to create extra space as necessary to avoid collisions,but 2.0 already makes this easier by allowing unequal staff distances globally, as opposed to requiring spacers on every system.
In reply to I agree that an option to by Marc Sabatella
How can I do that? Maybe I could set the distance to be very low, for start, and then add distance later where it would be required?
In reply to Unequal staff distances? by mowence
Again, that feature won't arrive until 2.0, although you can install experimental nightly builds if you'd like a preview. In the most recent build I tried it with, iyou simply drag a staff up or down to change its spacing, and that change is global through the score. As 1.x, staff spacers are also available to add space between staves for just a single system.
In reply to Again, that feature won't by Marc Sabatella
I did not notice that you talked about a future version.
But, if the software engineer would be kind, all I want them to do about this is to make it possible to also REDUCE the spacing between staff with that staff-spacing tool that works fine for increasing the distance. This is actually what I hope to find, in the first place.
How can I make such a request/suggestion?
In reply to Sorry - by mowence
It already works that way. staves can be dragged up or down.
In reply to It already works that way. by Marc Sabatella
not any closer than the default distance set by the system after the lyrics were added... Or am I missing something here?
In reply to Yeah, but... by mowence
You can't drag staves in 1.2
Only in 2.0
If you'd like to check out an unstable preview version check out the nightly builds on the Download page, but be aware that it is still in development, and can't be relied on to work properly.
Also, and very important - a score saved in 2.0 cannot be loaded into the current stable version 1.2 so make sure you have backups of your work before you do it.
In reply to Yeah, but... by mowence
As far as I know, there is indeed still no way in 2.0 to defeat the automatic adding of space to accomodate lyrics. But haven,t played with it enough to say for sure. Nor do I assume that the way it is implemented now will remain that way - the release is still under development.
I need to find a way, in MuseScore, to move the Bass staff closer to the bottom line of lyrics. An example is attached.
In the attached image, you will see how MuseScore leaves my hymn scores, and how I want to make them look. I need to know how to do this in MuseScore, without having to resort to export/load into another program/adjust output/hope and pray this will work to publish/etc.
I hope there is a way of doing this, again, in MuseScore.
In reply to Moving Bass Staff Closer to Bottom Line of Lyrics by Billsey
Menu -> Style / Edit General Style / Page -> Lyrics lower margin
See also http://musescore.org/en/handbook/layout-and-formatting