Is there a "REALLY" AWESOME SoundFont for my Unfinished Violin Concerto?

• Mar 30, 2017 - 00:16

This is getting TOO Old! I need to find a "REALLY AWESOME ORCHESTRAL SOUNDFONT" to use for my Violin Concerto I'm writing!!!. Although I need to find a SoundFont that really sounds and plays ACTUALLY like a "REAL PROFESSIONAL" orchestra does!!!!! So far, I've seen a lot of orchestra packs that cost TOO MANY DOLLARS, even for the Vienna Symphonic Library's Instruments, But these orchestra packs would be great if I would use them for a composition like this! Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra might be a great SoundFont for this piece, but here's the problem with that Orchestral SoundFont!

1: SSO doesn't have ENOUGH INSTRUMENTS for this piece!

2: The SoundFont itself sounds week.

and 3: Itdoesn't even Sound CLOSE to a REAL ORCHESTRA, except the percussion and timpani.

GeneralUser GS would be great, but NOT SO GREAT!, SGM-V2.01, may sound week, FluidR3?, (NO WAY!!!!!, Too much bad sounds!!!!!), Timbres of Heaven, (Same as Fluid), GMR Basico, (A total Rip-off of Fluid, and still wouldn't sound great!), MuseScore Orchestra, (Same thing as Fluid almost!!!), SONIVOX, Maybe for this SoundFont, but nope!, Musyng Kite, Maybe, (Only the Cello preset Sounds BEAUTIFUL for that part!), HQ Orchestra, (Almost perfect, but NOT REALLY!).

Ugh! Someone please help me "FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!!!!" On what SoundFont would be the best for this composition!!!!!

If you have any ideas on what SoundFont should be the best, please comment me and send me a link.


Short Answer: Probably not.
Long Answer:
You do realize that a SoundFont having a realistic full orchestra sound is very demanding right now, right? I desired that sometime in the past (you can see my forum thread about it), however upon listening more and more and comparing the different SoundFonts, I learned one thing, Free SoundFonts can't really do it. The Thread "SoundFonts for Overly Picky Orchestra Nerds" SoundFont was pretty good, but it still lacks other elements. I'm sure you're realizing by now that each free SoundFont has ups and downs, and qualities that simply drive you crazy.
Even with a high-quality Sound Bank such as Garritan's Personal Orchestra 5 or Even Sibelius+Noteperformer, would still not come that close. They sound rather accurate but they still lack the "human element". There are much more factors involving orchestral sound that machines and computers can't do a good job of. For Instance, the same note and articulation on a violin will sound a bit different because of something such as the part of the bow used, the angle of the bow, the direction of the bow stroke (up or down), or even how much bow hair is used. Also, not all members of the section would be playing the exact same way, which could affect the sound. The highest-quality Sound Banks would really only make the piece sound like a "synthesizer" at best and not an actual orchestra. Though early on they could sound realistic, but the better you get at orchestrating, the more "unrealistic" they'll sound.

There is another soundfont, name compifont.
Downloading is not easy because it is hosted on Mega server.
I tried downloading with Internet Browser, it was done two or three times, I could not download it.
I don't want to use Mega's "special super-duper" software for a simple download job.
Finally I could download it from another computer.

The problem is that the "Mega" site uses the entire memory of the browser. And you do not see the file until download ends.
It uses a different method: First it loads it into the "internet browser" memory, then it writes to the hard disk after the download finishes.

size: Almost 1GB

I downloaded, named: "All at once".
Downloading two separate fonts (Orchestral, Others) seemed to be meaningless.

Maybe it fits your wishes.

In reply to by Elwin

I listened to this composition and tested it with different SoundFonts.
My opinion: Compifont sounded better than the others for this piece.

Of course no soundfont can replace the real orchestra.
But human being is a weak creature ;/
We are all, doing something for hear to our music a little better. :)
We all know that it will not be like the original.
But we still do.

I exported an ogg file. (with compifont sf)
I dropped the quality (very much) and cut the half for upload (able) it to the forum (You know the 2 MB limit).
Perhaps you can get an idea of this extremely low quality example.

See attachment:

In reply to by Arianna2001

Do you read the writings of others, on your own topic?
Are you just looking at the links :)

site link and warning as above => click here

version: 13082016

I can export MP3 but you know that there is a limit of forum. (2MB)
At the moment, you have already heard an example of a very reduced quality. :D

BTW. MEGA link is in question: here (I do not like things that look like advertisements. But you forced it :) )
Mandatory note: This soundfont is not mine. I do not know its owner. I do not have anything to do with them.

The real problem isn't the soundfonts, it's the whole idea of using simple MIDI on/off messages to drive pl;ayback. It really doesn't matter how realistic any given sample is - and really, they are *all* samples of real instruments, so they are *all* realistic when played individually. The problem is, a real violin playing a music phrase does not sound anything like stringing together a whole bunch of recordings of individual notes. But that's what computer-generated playback does. Your soundfont could have the most perfect recording of the most beautiful rendition of each individual note, but playing them back to back simply won't sound anything like how a real violinst sounds playing that phrase, because it it will be missing what happens on the change from note to note. Same for wind instruments but perhaps even more so.

Basically, if you want the sound of a real orchestra, find a real orchestra. No computer-generated audio is going to come to close, at least not without a *ton* of tweaking of each individual note transition in DAW software. Best to think of the computer playback as giving you a rough idea and accept it for what it is rather than tear your hair out trying to make it something it is not.

I looked at it, and I can tell you some things without having all the instruments.

You musical ideas are pretty cool. It sounds neat, even without all the instruments assigned in the mixer.

For one, you aren't going to find an orchestra able to play it. Nobody has a contrabass flute, and I've never seen a bass flute. Which is part of the reason I didn't bother with try to put the bass flute samples into a sf2. Wagner Tuba and Contrabass Trombone are also going to be difficult to find, and while you can easily get a piccolo trumpet, chances are a guy on Bb instrument is just going to transpose your C and F Trumpet parts. Euphoniums are also extremely rare in orchestras.

On the Contrabass trombone... Bass trombones are much better anyway, and you already have a Tuba for the bottom brass job.

Contrabass Clarinet is also very unlikely to happen, Bass clarinets yes, but contrabass... not so much. Maybe if the orchestra can borrow or rent one from a band, but then they're paying money to play your piece. Bassett horns are not... they are specialty 18th century instruments that a superstar clarinetists might rent to play Mozart on. Most of the time they buy Basset clarinets(it's in the key of A), and... your chances are pretty low of finding a player who owns one.

The pipe organ necessitates playing in a church, or - more likely - using a keyboard synthesizer.

I'm saying all this from a community orchestra viewpoint - that's how you'd be able to get your pieces played. Join an orchestra, play for them, write for them. Pro orchestras have these things, but they will not play your piece.

So, that's the first observation.

The second is that you should join and play in a community orchestra to get a feel for the volume of things - you have a Solo Violinist playing against four oboe-variants in the beginning, and that would never work, oboes are overpoweringly loud compared to a single violin. You wouldn't be able to hear the cello, either.

And if oboes are loud... that fff bit with brass and solo violin? You would never hear it. Your violin would have to be miked, and so would the cello. For a good overview of balance issues -… - written by Rimsky-Korsakov. Basically, two oboes = one french horn. Two french horns = one trumpet. One oboe can play louder than an entire string section. There are two instruments that you can give solos to at fff with the full tutti orchestra playing that will still be heard: Bass trombone and Piccolo.

That bit with brass/violin sounds awesome, but it's not possible in real life, unless you're using an electric violin or something.

The third is just a notation thing - piano/harp/celeste glissandos and arpeggios? It's actually easier for players to read and play correctly if they are written out. Also, the celeste doesn't need the 8 on their clefs, it'll just confuse the player. Ditto for the the piccolo and contra/double bass. Except worse because they can actually play an octave higher that written without much trouble.

Similarly, tympani rolls are written with a three or four hash tremolo, not a trill.

Source: play in an orchestra, read lots of piano and harp parts. Pretty much all the celeste parts I've seen is because Russians(Tchaikovsky) love celestes.

Oh, and you have to remember: wind players have to breathe. Flutes are the worst with this, but all of them have to breathe. If you have a lower instrument, or you are playing loudly, you have to breathe sooner, because the volume of air required is larger - the breaths taken are also bigger and more obvious. So wind parts are usually written in phrases, or something with a rest or two in it at any rate.

Generally if a composer wants continuous arpeggios(or a really long held note) from a wind instrument, they assign it to two instruments and break it up - one clarinet takes the arpeggio going down, the other takes it going up. (Brahms, Academic Festival Overture, for the example I'm thinking of.) Your contrabass flute is going to have a hard time. Your Contrabassoon/clarinet/tuba combo are not going to be able to hold a note that long, either. I'd suggest getting rid of the clarinet, having the bassoon play until the brass comes in, switching to tuba. And when brass hits that whole note - change it to a quarter so you can hear the dramatic violin. Don't mark the brass forte on their phrases there, either. You'll get forte, and the violin entrance will sound quiet and small rather than dramatic. mp, maybe.

Heck, I'd take it down more than that. Four horn choir - they can actually pull off a piano dynamic, so you can keep the whole notes, just mark it sf pp, sotto voce. Pull in the rest of the brass at fff, it'll be more dramatic.

I'll stop writing now...

In reply to by Laurelin

Maybe you should read this:…

What you say about the basset horn is relatively true, but it does need to become standard in large orchestras. You can get quite a nice sound out of a quartet if two clarinets, one basset horn, and one bass clarinet. I also believe many basset horn/bassoon pairings would be nice. You will find a euphonium in larger orchestras like the LSO and Wiener Philharmoniker as some composers like Holst and Strauss use it occasionally. Contrabass trombone is only good for two purposes:
1. Taking over the tuba part allowing the tuba to play with the horns or the bassoons
2. To give it a melody.

In reply to by Arianna2001

well Arianna, that Empty.sf2 is just sitting there for me as a backup-template, and it sounds absolutely right.
i dont think you wil have much fun with my orchestral soundfond, for i made it to work with Volume, i use Velocity instead of Bankchange (so a violin plays PIZZ above Velocity90 for instance) and Musescore uses Velocity for Volume.
tell me what instrument you are interested in and i will tell you where it came from (if i can remember), for every sample is coming from the web, a lot of them from your own soundfontmap.

In reply to by bottrop

Oh come on! I would definitely LOVE your Orchestral SoundFont if you give me the attachment of it! Please?
I’m mostly interested in ALL of the Orchestral Instruments in your SoundFont!!!

To me, the Empty.sf2 ONLY has one Sound with Multiple GM Presets. Why did you ONLY use one sound in your Empty.sf2?

In reply to by Arianna2001

dont you understand what i am saying? this soundfont wont work in Musescore. if you would play a legato violinpiece, my soundfont will produce a mix of PIZZ,SPICC,TREM and LEG-notes instead. you would have to set each note in a specific Velocity to hear the articulation you want to hear, you would have to assign Volumevalues to each note (which is impossible in Musescore).
apart from that; there is nothing special in my soundfont; the strings are from Squidfont (about 20 years on the web!) and Sonatina, the soloviolin is just the Xlayer of the AAviolin, the viola is the viola in your own collection, there is the Cflute, the Natural Oboe and so on... you can easily swap these instruments into a soundfont yourself, in the order you want, stereo, if you like that.
the Empty.sf2 is just a template; some synthesizers wont play a soundfont that has unassigned Presets in it and in this soundfont you can test as few Presets as you like in those synthesizers.
(though it might be funny to play Beethovens 9th with it )

In reply to by bottrop

you would have to assign Volumevalues to each note (which is impossible in Musescore).
Your previous post said you'd have to set velocity values, which is very easy to do in MuseScore:
1. Select a range
2. Limit the selection to Notes using the Inspector
3. Set their velocity type to User and enter the Velocity value

In reply to by bottrop

Now I understand about the Orchestral SoundFont!

Do you have it published on your Google Drive? If yes, please send me a link to the orchestra SoundFont so that way I can try it out!

BTW, I need to know more about where the other instruments came from, such as the Harp, Solo Cello, Harpsichord, etc.

In reply to by Arianna2001

Arianna, you cannot try my soundfont out unless you use it in a MIDIsequencer and work over the Velocity AND Volumevalues of each note.
about the instruments; the harp is the Orchestral Harp from Sonatina, the SoloCello is the CellogirlCello and the Harpsichord is just a stupid harpsichord from an average soundfont, because i hate harpsichords. clarinet Iowa, Trumpet Westgate, Trombone Iowa, Bassoon Ethans, all regular instruments, sitting on the web, waiting for you to picked! (if they are not already in your collection)

In reply to by Arianna2001

the violinsolo.sf2 was there for a few days, but i deleted it because i dont want this soundfont to go astray on the web (will cause bugreports all over the world from people who hear spiccatoes of pizzicatoes where they expect legato) but i will put it back for a few days.
the other mp3 is played by the flcellogirlCello an Ethan Winers.
ill add them to the same folder, pick them up quickly, for i like to keep that folder tidy.

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