Different effective time signatures within one system
Dear Musescore Pros,
I am being stuck with this problem and hope anyone of you knows a solution.
I would like to transcribe Isaac Albeniz' Almeria from the Iberia Suite. In this case, Albeniz has composed two different types of time signatures in a single system (2 bars 6/8 vs. 1 bar 4/4). For this I have attached an example file.
I've tried out "property time signature" -> "appearance", however there the options for "global value" and "actual value" are being grayed out. Thus, an effective different clock signature is apparently not adjustable.
Does anyone of you see a way to create this in Musescore?
Thanks for your help.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Almeria Sample.png | 164.12 KB |
Comments
Crosslink: https://musescore.org/de/node/186561
Well...
You can enter the bottom two staves using tuplets in 4/4. Then, in time signature properties, change the 4/4 so the text appears as 6/8. Next, using the Inspector, set the tuplet numbers and brackets type to 'Nothing'. Finally, insert barlines between existing ones in the 6/8 time signature and connect the two 6/8 staves.
See:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/barlines#change-barline-type
and:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/barlines#connect-barlines
See attachment.
Regards.
MuseScore supports "local time signatures" - different time signatures in different staves, with measures the *same* length. See the Handbook under "Time signature" for more information. So to create your example, I'd set it up with the score in 6/8 overall, but the top stafgf set to a local time signature of 2/4 (since that is what lines up with a full bar of 6/8 the way this is written), then simply hide every other barline on the top staff to create the illusion of the 4/4.
In reply to MuseScore supports "local by Marc Sabatella
Jm6stringers method is easier.
In reply to Jm6stringers method is by mike320
For this particular short example, perhaps. But in the general case - where the ratios won't necessarily work out so simply, where there might be mores staves involved, other time signature changes going on as well, etc - the particular trick the other method relies on won't work.
Of course, as you know, local time signatures come with a bunch of limitations and caveats, so I would agree they are something of a last resort. Still, sometimes you need that last resort, as there may be no other way. So I thought it important to include that information for completeness.
In reply to For this particular short by Marc Sabatella
I don't how much this might help, but I was able to use some work-arounds for a similar situation in the attached.
In reply to I don't how much this might by marty strasinger
Dear all,
Thank you all for your help. I am very grateful indeed.
Cheers,
Hartmut
In reply to I don't how much this might by marty strasinger
Wow - really nice work.
May I ask how long all the bar line tweaking took?
Nothing happens automatically, right?
The second and third orch. are 'really' in 3/4 the whole time.
Impressive.
In reply to Wow - really nice work. May I by mkjnovak
I probably spent a couple of days figuring out how to make it all work, largely trial-and-error.
The actual note entry was pretty straight-forward once I had a working plan. There were a few bugs as I recall, especially there was a problem with the "fake" barlines not aligning vertically. I think it was Shoichi who provided the solution for that. As you noticed the "fake" time signatures are just text with no real function. This was mainly an experiment to see if MuseScore could actually do the notation, and to study a real genius who (I think) wanted to show off!
In reply to I probably spent a couple of by marty strasinger
May I ask what that barline alignment problem / solution was?
- or did it have to do with the following?:
Starting at 49 I think the 3/8 needs something else,
perhaps a quarter=dotted quarter would make sense out of Orch III.
Otherwise, my brain hurts looking at that alignment. :)
Technically, otherwise, it would actually be 1/4 with each quarter tripleted.
I've never seen the original score, btw.
I've been putting off some polyrhythmic music in Musescore; your work may inspire me to make it happen.
In reply to May I ask what that barline by mkjnovak
Attached is the source document, extracted from a pdf from IMSLP.
I'm pretty sure that I matched the original exactly, minus a few minor exceptions where certain standards have changed from the 18th century.
If you select "Show Invisible" in my mscz, a lot of the work-arounds will appear.
I don't remember with certainty, but I think the alignment issue was, sometimes a manually inserted barline doesn't align vertically to the top & bottom lines of the stave where it is added. I believe it was higher (or lower?) than the top or bottom line of the staff. The solution (maybe) was to select all similar, and use the Inspector to adjust the vertical offset.
I believe I started work on the score September of 2015. A search of the forums may turn up the thread, if you have the time to go digging.
Good luck with your polyrhythmic music work!