D.C. and D.S. con replicas

• Aug 17, 2017 - 15:34

Usually, a D.C. or a D.S. should be played with replicas unless otherwise (i.e. "senza replica") stated, but MS seems to do never play replicas after a D.C. or a D.S.

How can I have this default behaviour undre MS?


Comments

This is being worked on for 3.0

Normal performance of D.C and D.S. is to not play repeats (you used the word replica) during the D.C. or D.S. section but the score can instruct the musicians to play any or all repeats.

You currently cannot. My understanding is that DC and DS shouldn't play voltas, that's the standard and what MuseScore does by default. There is already an issue filed here #44666: play repeats and jumps work only 1st time but no fix yet.

I would love to be proved wrong but I'm not aware of any current work to improve this in MuseScore 3 (and I kind of overview the development process)

In reply to by Nicolas

I'm faraid you're wrong on this. I know that usually modern recordings are done with DCs and DS without repeats, but it's a wrong habit taken during the old times when the maximum recording time was around 12' (on old 78tr disks... A century ago!).
A proof of this is that you often find scores explicitly mentioning "senza replica" but I'm not aware of any score mentioning "con replicas".
And as I often say: it's not because 1.000.000.000 persons do a wrong thing that it's not wrong anymore ;-)

That said, you're right if you implement this function that way, because it's the modern habit. I'll be very glad if I can have a parameter to chane this by default, that's all :-)

Thank you all. I'll wait for the 3.0 version...

In reply to by bersyl91

Actually, MuseScore's default is correct. It is true that in different eras in different genres of music the conventions vary, but the "official" correct interpretation (according to pretyt much any standard reference on music notation) is to not take repeats unless explicitly marked. And yes, lots of music does have this explicit marking. But in other cases, it is indeed understood from context that repeats are to be taken (eg, music in AABA form where the two initial A sections are represented with a repea,t probably you do want the two A's even on a DC/DS).

BTW, speaking of "old times" as days when there werre actually recordings available misses the vast majority of music history :-). The limitations of the 78 RPM record format had no bearing on how music was performed in the time of Bach etc.

No, usually D.C. and D.S. are played without repeats and MuseScoore does exactly that and has no other way currently. But in the next major version there will be an extra check box in Inspector for these jumps, "With repeats" (off by default).

Some background:
Bach's time, music forms were played repeatedly after a D.C. (eg: minuet form).
At that time: "Minuet-II da Capo, senza repetizione" told us that you will not be doing any repetition after you have returned to the top of Minuet II. (Then it became a tradition. => The usual practice today).

I studied at the conservatory school; (11 years).
What is taught intolerantly (strictly): "No repeats after D.C. and D.S.; and the first of the voltas are skipped and the second ones is played."
This suggests that: this practice is widespread in the later periods of Bach, and is now applied as a definite rule.

Thus we arrive at the following conclusion: This rule was not applied in the Baroque periods. It is necessary to pay attention to this situation when performing the works of this period.

Several correspondents seem to have missed the point of the question. The question isn't "what is 'correct' after DS or DC" rather "regardless of what is current practice, is there a way to circumvent this and, if so, how".

At the risk of renewing a flame war: I'm MS3-ing Mozart's Clarinet Quintet KV 581 and in the Menuetto (third) movement at bar 73 occurs the instruction "Menuetto D.C. senza replica," which I gather means repeat from the top of the Menuetto, sans repeats. From scanning this thread (I stopped actually reading when it became a debate about customary performance practice) it sounds like this should be readily achievable in MS3, but when I search "D.C. senza replica," all I get is this thread ans another unhelpful result; in particular, it doesn't lead me to any instructions re: how to do it MS3: can someone please so instruct me? Thanks!

In reply to by OlyDLG

It seems that around Mozart's time the "D.C. senza replica" became redundant as that became the norm. As a result, this is the default for MuseScore. No doubt that before and after that conductors have made their own decisions so I would expect you to find examples here and there that do not follow this "rule."

Since we have no recordings from 1750 we must rely on what is common in notating scores regarding playing repeats in jumps. Before Mozart D.C. senza replica was more common after Mozart D.C. con replica is more commonly written in the scores. This tells us it was more common to play repeats before Mozart and more common to not play repeats after Mozart if there were no other instructions.

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