Small features i'm missing.

• Oct 27, 2017 - 23:30

(english is not my native language so there may be some errors sorry)

Hello, im a sibelius 8 user and was trying to move to linux a couple weeks ago so i gave musescore a try for a few days. Its a great program and the work you have done is amazing, but i found missing some small things that made me lose some time in the writing process so i had to move back to windows. I checked to see if there where requested here in the forum but couldnt find them and it seemed weird to me because these where the first things i noticed when i started writing.

  • Automatically solo selected staffs in mixer: sure you can do it manually each time but its really time consuming especialy with big scores.
    -Make 2 diferent types of shortcut for text: in sibelius this is ctrl+e for text below the staff (for dynamics especially) and ctrl+t for text over the staff. This is really big because by default text appears on top of the staff and you have to move each dynamic with the mouse for each instrument (ouch)
    -Automatic dynamics playback: Sure you can set the velocity for each dynamic on each instrument (double ouch)
    -Automatic arco pizz trem playback in strings: same as adove but not as critical.
    -Save template from score: i cant remember if this was implemented or not but when working regularly with some unusual ensembles its good to have a set of "custom" ensembles to have the score ready faster.
    -Intonation problems with some soundfonts: i dont know if this happens because of musescore or the sfz but its terrible in strings (pretty realistic depending which orchestra is playing :D)

Again, the work you are doing its great and its the only chance i have to finally move to linux completely. I dont know any programming so i dont know how hard this features are to implement. If these are implement in musescore 3 i (and many others) would move to musescore as soon as possible.
By the way, any estimated date of release??


Automatic solo... I'm not sure what this means. I'm not aware of any plan to improve the ability to solo an instrument.

Make 2 different types of shortcut for text... MuseScore 3.0 will make this easier because of work done by interns this past summer. There are several types of text that go above the staff and most have a shortcut (Tempo, System text, Instrument change - no shortcut...). The shortcuts will be able to be defined in 3.0.

Automatic arco, pizz, trem... No shortcuts (yet), but if you create a custom workspace you can make text that automatically enables these as I have done.

You can save an entire score as a template if you want to. When you select it as a template, all of the key signature, time signature and notes are not included in the new score

Intonation problems are due mostly to the sound fonts you are using. There are better ones out there and many are free.

In reply to by mike320

By automátic solo i meant that when you want to playback only a group of instruments in sibelius just by highlight them on the full score they automaticaly get soloed on the mixer, you don't have to open the mixer itself. Maybe my english is failing me and cant explain myself, someone with a sibelius copy might be able to see it for himself.
I wasnt aware of this workspace thing, im going to check it out soon, it might ve good it came configured by default? It works for the velocities of dynamics too? (I mean p mf f ff etc)
Thanks for your response

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

Your English is fine. You just didn't explain what automatic solo means and I've never used Sibelius. Now I understand and I don't know of any plan to make it that easy, though people have mention that something like that would be nice to have. I looked through the feature requests and didn't see anything like you describe being requested.

The dynamics are already in a palette. To explain, a work space consists of one or more palettes. Once 3.0 comes out, you will be able to assign a shortcut to any palette item, such as dynamics. Currently, I use a custom work space that consists of the palettes I mostly use such as dynamics, lines, articulations and ornaments plus a palette I use for text items that affect play back such as pizz. and con sordino. I also created some custom lines so I don't have to modify certain lines the same way most of the times I use them. If there is a palette item I need that I don't normally use, changing to a predefined work space is very quick. Move your mouse over the work space name and scroll.

If you've read some of the other forums posts you are probably aware that 3.0 will not be released any time soon. I'm just another MuseScore user like you, so I don't know anything definite, but I would be surprised if 3.0 got released in less than 18 months.

MuseScore, like any other program, takes some getting used to. Once you get a custom work space built, you will get accustomed to using the palettes to insert items that do not have a shortcut. There are many tips and tricks to speed up the process as well. For example, most items from the palettes can be added to multiple notes at a time. There are also several palette items (not dynamics though) that you can assign a shortcut to.

In reply to by mike320

I see, it takes a lot of customization... The program should come with the most common settings by default and you can modify them if you want. It dosen't require a programmer to do it maybe a user can do it, but without shortcut to some items its still not ideal for most users.
About the solo thing, i guess it depends on what use you give to the program, i use it mostly for composition so it super useful.

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

The palettes were designed for the most commonly used items to be included in the basic palette so the average user will normally be happy with it. I've seen many posts from people that didn't even realize there was an advanced work space. To do what you want, you probably need to do some customization. I've customized mine as I used the program and realized there were things I do more often, so I made adjustments. As I said, the interface takes some getting used to. I can transcribe 5 measures of a 20 instrument symphony score almost as fast as I can type this reply. I have to think about what I want to say while typing this, while copying a score there is almost no thought required. I do look forward to 3.0 coming out, mostly so I can use my mouse less while entering scores. There are other improvements I look forward to and some changes I simply do not care about.

I use it for composition quite a bit also and really wish there were an easier way to select which instruments can play. No program is perfect and I've suggested things I thought would make it easier for me to use it. Some of the suggestions are now in MuseScore, some are not. It's tough to find a better program for the price, and you have the potential to help improve it far more than you could expect in Sibelius or any of the other pricey notation programs out there.

In reply to by mike320

I get your point, thats why i say the work they have done its great, but there are some things missing that would make this the best notation software avaible, as it is the only open source alternative to sibelius finale etc. I undestand you (and many others) got used to clicking more, not having certain shortcuts, having to move dynamics and text to the correct place etc, but to most people its just not practical and prefer to buy (or to download an illegal copy of) a paid program. Freedom vs practicality i guess :(
Is there going to be a 2.5 version or something?

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

There will likely be a version 2.3. or 2.2.1. No matter what the next release is called, the ability to add shortcuts to all of the palettes items was done against the version 3.0 development version. I consider it unlikely that these changes will be ported to any version 2.x because the basic code for 3.0 is very different than 2.x and would likely produce a slew of bugs that would need to be addressed. Werner and lasconic are much more interested in getting 3.0 released than fixing an intermediate release.

If you haven't seen some of the features being worked on for version 3.0, you should need to do very little moving things around to avoid having them overlap because of the auto avoidance feature. In the next 2.x release the playback should have fewer problems than the current version, but the biggest problem with playback is the sound font.

Don't put dynamics as "system text"(Ctrl+Shift+T) or "staff text" (Ctrl+T).
Select the notehead and double-click on required dynamic from the Dynamics palette.
So it will appear in its normal position.
In this way, the dynamics play correctly.

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

I'm not quite sure what you mean about it not being practical. Maybe posting a specific score you are having trouble with help so we can see if there if maybe you aren't doing things the optimum way. There are always improvements being made to usability, but I'm not fully understand exactly what you are describing here, so I can't say for sure if these specifically are things already being worked on. Dynamics in particular should not normally need to be moved, sounds like you are for some reason entering them as a different type of text then altering them to look like dynamics rather than entering them as dynamics in the first place? Maybe only because there are no keyboard shortcuts for dynamics? That much at least is being worked on - there is a good chance 3.0 will allow keyboard shortcuts to be defined for all markings.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Hi, by not being practical i mean that after getting used to a program that has a shortcut to everything you need and does those things i mentioned in the first post (automatic pizz, solo, velocities for dynamics) its really hard to go back to having to look for something in a workspace with lots of element to click on it, or using the inspector to change the velocities, using the mixer to solo instruments.
I knows its doable, you can get a perfectly usable score with a free software program and its great! its not an specific problem with one score.
Shortcuts for all markings in 3.0 would be a great improvement i think i would move to musescore when that is implemented. It would be nice if they come preconfigured by default!!
I mean i thought this forum was to request features, features i mentioned would be sooo useful, at least for me! Are some of the features i mentioned adove doable??

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

Probably so. It's just that as I said, more explanation of what you are actually trying to do would help. At least in the case ofndynamics, it sounded like you simply didn't understand the correct way to add them and were thus resorting to a very inefficient workaround. It could be there are also easier ways to do some of the other things, but again, more explanation would help us understand.

In particular, we do already support custom palettes as well as custom templates, so if there is some marking or some set of instruments you personally use a lot, you.can already reuse them easily. I can't tell from your description of you are running into some limitation with these features or if you don't haven't found them.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I instaled musescore on windows just now and realized i was doing things wrong sorry, i will try to explain in a better way now.
As it comes out of the box crtl+t and ctrl+shift+t both place text adove the staff, it would be nice if by default one places it adove and the other below.
As for dynamics i wasnt aware that they had the velocities by default in the palette but it would be great if you could write the dynamics as text and they got recognized as the element from the palette. (i mean if you write piano in text with ctrl+shift+p for example) as having one shortcut for each dyanmic would be impossible/impractical.
The same thing for pizz, i would be more comfortable if you could write pizz. as text and it got recognized as an element from the palette that changes the sound to pizzcato. Same for arco and trem.
As for the solo thing i meant that when you want to playback only a group of instruments just by highlight them on the full score they automaticaly get soloed on the mixer, you don't have to open the mixer itself. This happens in sibelius 8, you can download a demo version for free i dont know how to explain it better sorry.
Thanks for your patience :D

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

Actually, having different shortcuts for different dynamics isn't impractical at all, since MuseScore supports "key sequences". So for instance, we could make it so Ctrl+D followed by a number 1-8 entered a dynamic from ppp to fff. I think this would be more efficient than needing to actually type the dynamic, especially since you'd need to activate special shortcuts in the text to distinguish the regular letters "m" "p" etc from the special glyphs (eg, "sempre mp"). Anyhow, improvements in entering of dynamics via keyboard is already planned and partially implemented for a future release.

As for text above/below, Ctrl+T and Ctrl+Shift+T have very different purposes that have nothing to do with placement of text. Ctrl+T is :staff text", which is text that is meant to apply to that staff only. Ctrl+Shift+T is "system text" - text that is meant to appear above the full score and then be reproduced on each staff in the parts. In general, it would be wrong for either of these text types to be displayed below the staff. That would be a different type of text. Also, a text style that is plain font by default versus text that is italics by default.
Here again, improvements are already planned and partially implemented for a future release.

Pizz and arco you can already create and set up once, then add tou your palette so they are always available for you to reuse over and over again. See the Handbook under "Custom palette" to learn how to do this. So that way, people who write a lot of classical string music can have these terms in their palettes, people who write a lot of pop songs can have different terms on their palette, people who do a lot of drum corp music have 8different* terms, etc, and no one's palette is cluttered with terms that are common in other genres but not theirs. It is possible that a future release will include multiple default worksapces prepopulated with appropriate markings for different genres, expanding on our current "Basic" and "Advanced" worksapces. Feel free to start a new thread devote to that topic specifically to discuss how that might look.

I think I get what you mean about soloing instruments. In general, playback improvements are secondaqry in importance, and I'm not really understand how saving the two clicks it takes to open the mixer and do the soloing there would be that big of an improvement, but if someone who thinks they would bnenefit a lot from this feels like implementing it - MuseScore is, after all, open source - then I'm sure it would be considered.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

omg im such noob haha. I guess im so used to sibelius that workspaces an palettes seemed so unintuitive but now i think maybe i can get used to it.
As for the shortcut to dynamics maybe using numbers wouldnt be so practical because you'll have to remember the numbers, maybe holding ctrl+shif then pressing the letters to the dynamic (like m f or p p) then release would seem more intuitive, but not shure if thats doable.
About the soloing instruments, i use the program mostly for composition and usually i want to hear just a group of instruments to see some details about a section or something, having to use the mixer rather stops the workflow. I think this is my main concern now.
Right now i have too much work to do but in a few weeks i will try to move to musescore again to see if it works for me.
Thank you for your time!

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

I doubt that remembering numbers for dynamics would prove difficult, after all we do that already for note durations. In practice, most people remember "5" is quarter note and then mentally go up or down from there. This would be similar for dynamics, "5" would be "mf". But sure, also being able to type could be fine - just more work, in which case it's not really better than the current method. Note we also plan to make it so you can search the palettes and navigate them by keyboard alone. So the sequence to enter "fff" might be, hit shortcut to transfer keyboard control to palette search box, type fff which finds the appropriate palette item, hit Enter to apply it. In principle similar to actually forcing people to type, but this way they don't have to worry about remembering the proper shortcut for the fancy "f" glyph or having a typo etc, plus it's the same mechanism they'll also use for other element types like articulations, no need to have on special command that works for dynamics but nothing else.

Regarding your use case for playback, if that's something you do a lot, consider generating a "part" for the group of instruments, then you can hear just that group easily by switching to the part. Seems that is actually easier than having to keep selecting and re-selecting specific groups of instruments each time you want to hear them together.

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

Then maybe you will need to explain it further. From what I can wod actually be far more work. Many clicks to select the set of instruments you want, then repeating that same work each and every time you want to reduce that same set, as opposed to just a single click on the part any time you want to solo it. Hard to see how needing to reselect the instrument group every time would be more practical.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I think i understand where you are coming from, you are trying to optimize the number of actions for a certain task, but in this case there are far too many combitations of instruments posible. I dont know what style of music you make, but in orchestal music there are way to many timber combinations, its not enough to have the string section woodwinds and brass by themselves, maybe you will want to hear violas horns and basson, or violins flute double bass. I write tango music mostly and the same happens, i used examples from classical because they are more common, in tango you might want to hear viola cello and only the left hand from one bandoneon(it uses 1 staff for each hand) of a section of four, or many other combinations. Its easier/more intuitive to select wich instruments you want from the score even if it takes a few more steps.
Maybe you should download a demo of sibelius to see how it works i dont know... also i dont know how hard it would be to implement maybe you have other priorities.

In reply to by [DELETED] 26799858

OK, that makes sense. It's not unreasonable or impossible, just that given there are already two different ways of doing this (mixer, or parts), it's not likely to become a high priority for the project as a whole. But as always. if someone who find this to be important were to work on designing it and implementing it themselves, there is a good chance it would be considered.

I'm also not a developer, just a user with some experience with MuseScore.

In MuseScore 2.1 it's possible to set the general position of text elements or dynamics via style->text...

In MuseScore 3.0 it will be possible to add text elements or dynamics and adjust the placement (below or above) in the inspector respectively switch between above and below via shortcut "x". Feel free to test a nightly build of the development version (you'll find it on the download page).

As already mentioned: you can each score save in the template folder and use this template for other new scores.

Not sure what you're mean with "auto dynamic playback". You can already adjust the velocity for each dynamic in the inspector.

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