Is "Regroup Rhythms" actually doing anything?

• Jul 18, 2018 - 08:45

After fixing unwanted behaviour in "Regroup Rhythms" in v2.2 the function became useless. I tried any constellation of entering wrong but simple rhythms without lyrics or arcticulations. I can't get this function to do anything. As it is now, it could as well be removed from the menu to free up space there.

see also attached file.

Attachment Size
Test_Regroup_Rhythm.mscz 7.43 KB

Comments

Sorry, I fail to see the difference between the "old" and "new" behaviors (except, fo course, for the bug fixed).
Here is what I see when opening your score:
beginning.png
Then, after using "Regroup Rhythms", here is what I obtain in both MuseScore 2.1 and MuseScore 2.3:
final.png
The behavior is the same: the tied 1/4 notes in measure 2 become one half note, and this was the same behavior as in v2.1.
Indeed, I think Regroup Rhythms is useful for imported file (e.g. from midi import) to "clean up" the notation of multiple tied noted, as shown by the examples in the handbook.
I think the behavior of this tool never was to split a note into a series of tied notes. Am I missing something?
Ciao,
ABL

I concur, it is absolutely wrong to split the half note into two quarters. It's possible some experimental nightly build had a bug that would produce that result, but thankfully it was fixed before release, as no official version of MuseScore ever would have made that error. On the contrary, if you run the command on the tied version, MuseScore corrects it for you, turning it into the half note version, just as it should.

For the record, the rule about splitting a 4/4 measure in half and tying notes across the imaginary dividng line only applies to measure that include subdivisions of the beat - eg, measures including eighth notes.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Ok, thanks for pointing out the details of the rule when or when not to spilt 4/4 measure in half. I did the same experiment with a quarter and a eighth note crossing the measures halfs. Regroup Rhytms does not correct either of them. I don't have access to v2.1 anymore, but I'm pretty sure it did spilt the crossing note (while destroying some other things).

Attachment Size
RegroupRhythm2.mscz 6.77 KB

In reply to by drowo@gmx.net

I do have 2.1 installed, and you are right, those particular cases were handled differently.

The first one is that case is a special exception that is often allowed. That is, quarter notes and dotted quarter are allowed to straddle the mid-point in certain common syncopated rhythms that are idiomatic to a particular style. For instance, in Afro-Cuban music, two dotted quarters and a quarter is half the the basic clave rhythm and hence is familiar enough to readers that many editors just leave it alone. Similarly for a series of off-beat quarters in jazz or Brazilian music. The algorithm is a bit conservative and only changes things that almost all editors would agree needs changing.

The second one probably should be fixed, though. Not sure what the reaosning was behind changing it, probably a bug that came from how it was re-implemented. But in general, even if certain cases fall through the cracks, the feature does still work. And pretty good chance that other things that fell through the cracks before are handled better now. Still, it's kind of a crutch, helpful to get a head start, but not something to take the place of human expertise.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Ok, thank you drowo @ gmx.net, now I see.
When writing the fix for the articulation bug, I limited the rewriting of notes and rests only if the recomputed ones were longer (e.g. two more tied notes becoming one single note), in order to suppress the rewriting action if the notes were unchanged. Actually, this misses the case in which the notes are changed into a group of tied notes with smaller duration, as in the example you gave.
I think the patch should not be difficult, but it would extend the rewriting to all notes and rests, as it was in 2.1. I will try to send a PR today.
Maybe it could go into 2.3.2, if we are quick and lucky (I don't know the hard deadline for 2.3.2).

Thank you both for your answers. I would like to appologize for my provokativ first post. I wasn't aware that the main intent was to remove excessive ties from midi input notes. I agreed those imports can look horrible after first import. My use case is the exact oppoite as I generate the midi from the score. I started to write scores just 3 years ago on a larger project and got feedback from some of the singers that my notation is sometimes hard to read as I tend to avoid ties and wasn't aware of rules like "don't obscure the measures midpoint". This function provided an easy way to split notes at the correct point. But I also agree with Marc that no function can replace expertise. So it would be nice if this could be fixed some day but no need to hurry.
Regards,
Robert

In reply to by drowo@gmx.net

@ drowo @ gmx.net
Ciao. The behavior of Regroup Rhythms function should be as expected in the current 2.3.2 preview.
Hopefully :-)
If you want to test it, under Windows you can use the following installer:
https://ci.appveyor.com/api/buildjobs/qslay95skq541ygl/artifacts/MuseSc…
Please Remember that this is not yet the final 2.3.2 release installer, but it uses the same version, so you will have to reinstall MuseScore 2.3.2 over it after the publishing of the official release.
Or you can simply wait for the official MuseScore 2.3.2 (coming very soon) :-)
Ciao,
ABL

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