Final Barline not at End of Score

• Jan 20, 2019 - 05:11

I have a song with three variations in the middle of a long repeat, with the third variation ending the song before reaching the end of the repeat. The problem is that playback fails to stop on the third variation.

To make debugging simple, I have attached PDF and MCSZ files with a simple eight measure "ABDABDAC" example. If you open the attached PDF you will see the following:

A. Measure A is the default beginning of the repeat.
B. Measure B volta #1 is set to "repeat list 1, 2".
C. Measure C volta #3 is set to "repeat list 3" and also has a Final Barline.
D. Measure D has the Repeat ending barline and is the last measure in the score.

Now, if the play count of measure D is set to 2 (the default), it does not repeat the third time to reach the final AC variation. But, if the play count of measure D is set to 3 then playback does go back to A but not stop at the final barline in measure C.

In other words, measure D play count 2 plays ABDABD, and measure D play count 3 plays ABDABDACD. How do I play ABDABDAC? If anyone provides a solution I can then apply the solution to my original score from my previous topic.

P.S. If this is a bug, I'm pretty sure the fix is going to be to give priority to the final barline, stopping playback wherever / whenever it appears, even if it is not the very last measure of the score.


In reply to by Shoichi

Thanks Shoichi. Unfortunately, while there are many ways to get it to work with a change in score -- yours included -- my sample case is a simplified version of the attached real score I imported from a college class. Our professor handed us photocopies from her score book, and I am using MuseScore to exactly duplicate it and create rehearsal files. See the attachment, second page, "3. (Final Ending)" on the middle system.

The only change I made from the original was to expand volta "1.2." because the original cheated on the final eight note of volta 2.

Attachment Size
Today2.pdf 318.01 KB

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Thanks Jo-jo, but I can't get it to work with Fine and D.C. al Fine. This is a tough problem that might require a code change to solve.

I understand D.C. now, which should have worked for yesterday's test case. But, since my original score repeats starting at measure 6, I added an intro to my test case. So, now, I am trying to get X-ABD-ABD-AC. But, with Fine and D.S. al Fine, I get X-ABD-ABD-ACD-AC. So I need to get rid of the extra "...D-AC."

Maybe it's a feature request, but if playback would just stop whenever the code hits a measure marked Fine inside a volta, it would have been worked correctly without even needing a DS or DC.

I'm attaching XABCD.mcsz and Today.mcsz, and will greatly appreciate it if anybody can find the right combination of settings. Whatever works for "XABCD" without adding any measures should solve the same problem for "Today."

In the meantime, instead of exporting an MP3 rehearsal file for my "Today" score, I've been forced to just record the playback using my iPhone voice recorder, hitting escape when the X-ABD-ABD-AC[D-AC] gets to the first C. From there I've saved the audio recording to a rehearsal file to share with my classmates.

Attachment Size
XABCD.mscz 6.09 KB
Today.mscz 28.83 KB

In reply to by wkrasl

TYou can make MuseScore ignore the rules of music notation, but human musicians won't :-) By definition, Fine only applies after a DS or DC. Best to simply find a way to get the playback you want while following the rules of standard notation - then both MuseScore and human musicians will play it correctly.

To get X ABD ABD AC, write

X |: (segno)A(to coda)BD :| DS al Coda
Coda: C

That is, no volta, but have repeats around ABD, followed by DS al Coda, with the segno at A and the "to coda" just before B. Then have C as your coda. Might be other ways to do it too, but that seems most straightforward.

Another would be X |: A (1,2) BD :| (3) C

That is, have BD in your first volta marked 1,2, C in your second volta marked 3.

In reply to by wkrasl

I was trying to get this to work without adding any measures or expanding any repeats, since my objective was to apply the solution to the original "Today" score for my music class.

However, it plays correctly with D.S. in measure C and Segno in a single appended rest measure. And, with empty staves hidden that appended rest is so insignificant I'm not even going to bother hiding it.

Now, instead escaping out of of playback for an audio recording, I can correctly export Today.mp3 for class rehearsals without any effort.

Thank you everybody for working on this for me. Case closed. :)

Attachment Size
XABCD.mscz 6.56 KB
Today.mscz 30.15 KB

In reply to by wkrasl

I have similar issues with the "go to" and "repeat" features of Musescore.
Musescore is so complete and well done that I have difficulties to understand why it is impossible to define where the music should stop, even when a "final bar" is set.
I have to tell that before switching to Musescore, I was using Pizzicato (now stopped), where it was possible to define a series of destinations (measure #'s) to use on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd,... pass. This way ahead was completely transparent for the user, but it did not ensure a consistency between the notation and the "music play" behaviour.
Due to this previous experience, I still need to get use to the philosophy of Musescore.
I appreciate it a lot, but I regularly hit the wall when using repeat features, except for the very basic ones.
I finally discovered that using (redundant) repeat bars messes up with "D.S. al Coda" and similar features. They only tolerate a simple double bar, but not a repeat bar, the latter taking some kind of precedence so that other signs are no longer interpreted.
Hoping this can help other users.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thank you Marc.

My question was rather generic on the repeat logic, but here is the score that does not stop at the end bar.
Looking to other related post (from jojo), I read that the end bar is just like a simple bar and has no effect at all.

While testing, I also noted that repeat bars have an effet, contrary to the end bar, but can mess up if combined with signs (DS al Fine,...), the latter being simply ignored in this case.

Attachment Size
Haydn Wood - Roses de Picardie.mscz 29.79 KB

In reply to by Flying Roger

I finally discovered that using (redundant) repeat bars messes up with "D.S. al Coda" and similar features. They only tolerate a simple double bar, but not a repeat bar, the latter taking some kind of precedence so that other signs are no longer interpreted.

Yes, and that's not MuseScore specific, but music specific. Jump instructions are usually to be honored only on the last repeat of a measure. So adding a repeat barline will indeed make it so the jump isn't taken on the first pass.

In reply to by jeetee

I read often this comment on this forum, like if there is a "bible" somewhere describing how one should write music. Unfortunately, there are many variants and what is the law for one is not for another author.

Here is another example where I am struggling to get it printed and played by Musescore.
There are "1.-------", "2.--------" and "3.-------" lines in Musescore, but combining 1 and 3 result in a superposition as soon as the "Fine" mark is added. How should I code this?
The idea of the author is most probably to play 2 after the 2nd pass and then resume DS. al Fine.
But Fine is also "3.-----" and combination is not foreseen.
I implemented as shown on the second attached file, but the playback stops at N°2.
"DS al Fine" is simply ignored and there is no 3rd pass.

I also did not manage to implement the liaison preceding the first note on 2, unless I extend 1. and 2. to the preceding measure despite the fact that it is identical in both cases.
Help welcome.

Attachment Size
t.gif 20.62 KB
t2.gif 5.32 KB

In reply to by Flying Roger

Actually, there are several such "bibles", covering different aspects of music notation an offering different viewpoints, but they are all in agreement on basics, because if they weren't we wouldn't be able to read and write music and be understood. So, yes, there is absolutely agreement the top line of a treble clef staff is "F", you can tell people "well, in my music, I use that line to mean G", but that will not do you any favors.

Same for things like how basic repeat markings work - there are commonly understood rules for these sorts of things. If you write something a particular way, it's important that everyone knows what you mean, and that's why these rules exist, to ensure that people can understand what you write.

That said, the rules for repeats are not quite as clear or as black and white as some others, and there are some types of repeat structures the standard markings simply cannot represent. So it's not uncommon to need to add more text to your repeat markings (like explicit instruction to "play repeats" on a DS or DC, since the normal default understood by musicians is to not play them). MuseScore won't understand that text, but there is a checkbox in the Inspector to tell MuseScore your intent.

So sure, sometimes it might be necessary to go beyond what is normally considered "scripture" and hop that human musicians will be able to udnerstand your intent, especially when you provide additional text to explain what your intent is. But when you deviate from the standards, there is simply no way MuseScore can know this, it lacks the "AI" that might be needed to figure things out that go beyond the norm.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Dear Marc,
Let's be clear, I do not intend to invent anything: I just receive scores from my teachers (song, organ or accordion) or from other sources and I try to encode them in Musescore to be able to enhance the quality of the score, adapt the layout to my needs and get them played on my computer as a support for learning. I got acquainted with a number of MS features, but still struggling with repeat signs.

However, I appreciate the help received on this forum; it helped me to progress.
For example I had missed the tick mark; now I understand why DS. al Fine did not always work !

The Youtube tutorials were also helpful ; I did not watch all of them, but I already grabbed there some interesting shortcuts and encoding method that I was not aware of, in particular the "r" for repeat.
Just that one has seriously boosted my encoding speed, especially for the accordion left hand.
I will progressively watch the other tutorials to discover more MS features.

In reply to by Flying Roger

Understood, and thanks for the comments! Indeed, as I said, due to limitations in what is actually possible to notate about repeats using standard notation, and due to changes over the course of history in what is considered correct interpretation, there can indeed be cases where a published score will continue a notation that both modern human musicians and MuseScore might struggle to understand, but the human musician has the benefit of probably being able to 'figure it out" even if it isn't technically correct.

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