3.4.2 "Save as" does not update file pathname in Score Properties
Title says it all. This is very, very bad -- you don't know where your file is going.
OS: macOS 10.15, Arch.: x86_64, MuseScore version (64-bit): 3.4.2.25137, revision: 148e43f
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The info is there after close/reopen though
In reply to The info is there after… by Jojo-Schmitz
Uh, not quite good enough (maybe you're being wry, as often:) . I must be able to know the pathname of what I'm editing. "Close it first and hope it was right!" is not adequate. I would not mind if it took up vertical space to show the file pathname all the time.
In reply to Uh, not quite good enough … by [DELETED] 1831606
Yes, it should get updated right away, so sure a bug.
Not meant to by wry, just investigating into the issue
In reply to Yes, it should get updated… by Jojo-Schmitz
But read it in the light of "you can only certify that that disease was the case at autopsy time" (which is not at all funny, but there is a parallel). Thanks for looking into it.
In reply to But read it in the light of … by [DELETED] 1831606
Hmm, that dialog uses
filePath->setText(score->importedFilePath());, but it seems "Save As" doesn't (re)set this, onlyreadScore()does, but none of the 2saveAs()methods doesIn reply to Hmm, that dialog uses… by Jojo-Schmitz
Is there any other place in the UI where the real, full file path is available?
In reply to Is there any other place in… by [DELETED] 1831606
I don't think so.
For this to not get lost please report it in the issue tracker
In reply to I don't think so by Jojo-Schmitz
Wanna file this, as you looked at the code? I think this is a very, very bad bug (i.e., that you cannot know the pathname accurately in a very common case).
In reply to Wanna file this, as you… by [DELETED] 1831606
yes, please file it, I gotta run shortly, rehearsal...
In reply to yes, please file it by Jojo-Schmitz
OK
To me it's not a bug. It's showing you where the file was loaded from, and Save As doesn't change that fact. But if the majority of users feel it would be more useful to show saved-to location instead of loaded-from location, that would seem a harmless enough behavior to change.
In reply to To me it's not a bug. It's… by Marc Sabatella
I can't understand this line of thinking. The notion of file-pathname associated with a buffer is constant across every (other) application I have ever used, going back to printing-terminal days. This does not make any sense at all to me. In that case, the sca34344 thing isn't a bug either. No, with all due respect, please clear your glasses. The notion of file pathname associated with a document is not up for negotiation. Try any word processor, editor, etc. of your choice.
In reply to I can't understand this line… by [DELETED] 1831606
Could be, but like I said it seems perfectly natural me. not sure what other program I could try to that presents similar info to see how they do it. Feel free to provide some examples I could try on either Windows or Linux (I have no Mac to test on). If there is evidence lots of other programs present a similar thing differently, and people generally prefer that other method, no reason we couldn't change it. I rather it doubt it's something most people have actually given much thought too in terms of having preconceived expectations, though.
In reply to Could be, but like I said it… by Marc Sabatella
How about MS Word. How about Emacs on any system. How about Notepad. How about any program that supports "save as"? Pity the poor user who has file A open, writes it out (modified) to B, and then reads A in again and now has two buffers claiming to be A. I do this very often. I can't imagine any argument in favor of the current, extremely exceptional behavior. If it has to be kept, please give me another way to find the correct pathname of an open file.
In reply to How about MS Word. How about… by [DELETED] 1831606
I’m confused. I thought we were talking Score Properties, not Save As. I don’t have Word installed, but I don’t think Notepad has anything like the Score Properties dialog. I mean, sure, one can do Save As and assume it’s probably defaulting to the last saved-to folder, but one can do the same in MuseScore.
In reply to I’m confused. I thought we… by Marc Sabatella
I am talking about the pathname that appears in Score Properties after Save As has been used. I don't have notepad in front of me, but other applications let me know the correct pathname of the file being edited. MuseScore does not. "The correct pathname of the file being edited" is well defined. It is either undefined (for a new file), the last place it was read from, or the last place it was written to, whichever is later (operations with autosave files excepted)
In reply to I am talking about the… by [DELETED] 1831606
So as I said, if you can name a handful of programs and provide the specific commands to display the metadata for the open document, we can look at which programs update that metadata when. I'm not saying you are wrong that it's probably more common to update it on every save. But I also don't think I'm wrong that the vast majority of users have never given this a second thought. Which is no doubt why there have been zero complaints about this in the decade (at least) it has been so...
In reply to So as I said, if you can… by Marc Sabatella
Tell me what I have to do to find out the pathname of the score I am editing and I will go away. I'm unalterably convinced that that is a reasonable thing to want to know.
In reply to Tell me what I have to do to… by [DELETED] 1831606
Same as you'd presumably do in any other program: Save As, check the defaults provided.
FWIW, since this info is apparently generated on the fly, seems reasonable we could provide both bits of info.
"Opened from" and "Last Saved to". Similar to how files have both a created and modified date in the OS.
In reply to Same as you'd presumably do… by Marc Sabatella
No. In any decent program the path is correctly displayed.
And with the long tradition of MuseScore to NOT use current path to initialize the save as dialog box, this would be incorrect anyway.
In reply to Same as you'd presumably do… by Marc Sabatella
That's not reasonable, to issue a fake request to save it. Other programs (e.g., Emacs) have "list buffers" that show the pathnames of open files. Score Properties displays an untruth.
I just found a way on the Mac; if you click right on the file name in the title bar, it displays a "stack" of folders the likes of which I have never seen on a program on the Mac, but it has the information.
The title bar should show the full pathname, and Score Properties should display the correct pathname. Issuing a Save As and then cancelling it is not reasonable.
In reply to So as I said, if you can… by Marc Sabatella
Except that in MuseScore this is the (inconvenient) place to look for the path name.
And even if the "true" path was displayed somewhere else, who would then ever need that property "last opened from"?
In reply to Except that in MuseScore… by frfancha
I don't understand, what makes Save As less convenient in MsueScore than any other application?
I can think of lots of reasons to want to remember where a file came from.
In reply to I don't understand, what… by Marc Sabatella
Because in no other application did I ever have to issue "save as" to find the pathname of the file I am editing. This makes me wonder if I can count the fingers on my hand or name the notes in a C major chord. I must be very, very confused about the utility of file pathnames.
In reply to Because in no other… by [DELETED] 1831606
Hmm. How would you do it in Notepad then, for instance? Again, I'm willing to be convinced there really is some common way to get this information in other applications. Title bar certainly is one, although I'm very much not a fan and turn it off in programs that give me that option.
In reply to Hmm. How would you do it in… by Marc Sabatella
<< How would you do it in Notepad then, for instance >>
I hope that you don't consider that notepad is a valid quality standard for MuseScore to follow.
It is unanimously recognised as the worst Windows application.
In reply to << How would you do it in… by frfancha
Unanimous - 1, then: I rather like it. But, substitute practically any other program that doesn't clutter the title bar with full pathnames. Wordpad, say, or Paint 3D, or, GrooveMusic, or LibreOffice, to name the few programs I tried.
In reply to Unanimous - 1, then: I… by Marc Sabatella
So it is not important to you to know which directory a file being edited is in? Well, it is to me; I often have different copies when I download files from the site, and it is important to me to know if a file is in the Download directory or the MS 2 or 3 scores directory, all the time every time. It must not be so important to others.
In reply to So it is not important to… by [DELETED] 1831606
I like to know this too, at various times. Mostly when I'm opening or saving the score. If I want it at other times, I often make that information - and other information that might not be apparent just from knowing the pathname - visible on the score itself. Knowing I imported a score from MuseScore 2 doesn't tell me it is string quarter versus wind octet, for example. Or that's it's a working draft versus the version we performed on such-and-such a date. Lots of info to know about a score, pathname is only a piece of the puzzle. But when it is relevant, it's still likely to be interesting to know both opened-from and saved-to.
In reply to Unanimous - 1, then: I… by Marc Sabatella
Word (365 business version) shows the full path in the file info pane, which you get in a single click by pressing file on the ribbon.
Notepad++ shows them in the titlebar as well as in the tooltip for the file tab. → The tooltip solution is something I'd like to see in MuseScore as well.
QtCreator shows them as tooltip when hovering over the file switcher dropdown (titlebar is short name only). So does Visual Studio
So to me it seems MuseScore is definitely lacking the tooltip option and the only other software in this list that has anything resembling the Score Properties screen is Words info pane.
All of these always show the most recent/actual location for the file.
In reply to To me it's not a bug. It's… by Marc Sabatella
Imagine the path of the current score was shown in the title bar with the file name (which would be quite useful by the way).
What should it be after "save as" in another folder with another name?
The old folder with the new name ?
I wouldn't find that "perfectly natural".
In reply to Imagine the path of the… by frfancha
The latest full pathname of whatever (non-temp-autosave) file from which it was last read or to which it was last written. In what way is this ambiguous in the extremely common case you cite? In what way is "the new folder with the new name" not correct?
In reply to Imagine the path of the… by frfancha
I'd expect the title bar, as well as Save As, to show me the current ("new") path - both folder and filename. But again, that's not what we're talking about here - it's specifically about Score Properties, and under which situations this particular bit of metadata should happen to be automatically updated.
In reply to I'd expect the title bar, as… by Marc Sabatella
The title bar does not show me the pathname. It only shows the file name. I actually never noticed it before for MuseScore.
In reply to The title bar does not show… by [DELETED] 1831606
Right, he was proposing that eventually it be enhanced to show full path. I'd probably prefer it not to and would rather see that a preference.
In reply to Right, he was proposing that… by Marc Sabatella
I would vote for it to show the full path. I'm one of the dying breed of ancient computerists to whom the full pathname of a file being edited is of very great importance. Let everybody else overwrite and confuse their files, if that be their preference. I want to know what I'm editing.
In reply to I would vote for it to show… by [DELETED] 1831606
Marc Sabatella in 2017:
""Save As" defaults to the last folder you saved to when using that dialog. So you must have previously done a "Save As" to that folder"
So how can you expect that clicking on different tab with open scores we use save as to find the true folder??
In reply to Marc Sabatella in 2017: "… by frfancha
I guess there is a problem here when a file is opened from the MuseScore 2 directory, and MS will write it to MS3 if and when you save it. In that case, pathname of the file is ill-defined between those two events. But that seems scant for it to be difficult to ascertain the pathname in all other cases.
In reply to Marc Sabatella in 2017: "… by frfancha
That was 2017, this is 2020, the implementation of Save As changed since then, in response to popular request.
In reply to That was 2017, this is 2020,… by Marc Sabatella
It's not wrong, it's a good feature, but it has an impact on this discussion.
In reply to It's not wrong, it's a good… by [DELETED] 1831606
I guess I'm just too hung up on what directory a file lives in, and whether two similar looking things are the same thing or not -- perhaps left-over EQ/EQUAL distinction from being a long-time Lisp programmer. It must not be as important as I think it is.
I took a look at Notepad on Windows -- it is indeed difficult to find out what directory the file lives in.
It seems that other Mac apps support (as does MS) clicking right on the title in the title bar to find the "directory stack" (although not in copyable form). Maybe that's adequate. I must be living in an obsolete world where file pathname is the most fundamental fact about a file you are editing, but it's not so important any more.
Why on earth, though, Score Properties "file pathname" is not obligated to be accurate I don't understand.
In reply to I guess I'm just too hung up… by [DELETED] 1831606
Sure, pathnames are very good to know - mostly, at the moment you are opening or saving a file, primarily. I see it this way: just as created and modified date are both interesting things to now, so is opened-from and saved-to pathname. We don't complain that the created date does not tell us the modified date or say it is "inaccurate" because it is not the same as modified. Similarly, I don't see any particular reason to complain that the opened-from path doesn't tell us the saved-to path or say it is inaccurate just because it isn't the same. Instead, I'd simply observe it might be nice to have both pieces of information available side by side in the same interface, and Score Properties seems a lovely place to do that.
But FWIW, I do think most younger people think of tree-structured file storage hierarchies as being somewhere in-between quaint and archaic; older people who didn't grow up with them tend to find them completely bewildering. Consider, most mobile apps provide a flatter storage structure, with individual app storage areas, and tagging, categorization, and/or search facilities provided to make it possible to have much richer organization than a tree structure. That way you can have your recording of Rudolph Serkin performing Clair de Lune filed under Serkin, Clair de Lune, and Debussy all at once, without necessarily worrying about which folder/directory you put the dang thing it. This sort of organization is actually something of a religion ("digital asset management") among people who deal with really large numbers of files, like professional photographers.
In reply to Sure, pathnames are very… by Marc Sabatella
Oh well, I guess I still love my Multics... don't need no directories nowadays, eh?
In reply to Marc Sabatella in 2017: "… by frfancha
OK. I'm trying to follow what the problem is here.
I have a score open in MuseScore that I loaded from the score folder. I work on it and save it in a different pace with the same name. But Score Properties still shows the file path as the one I loaded the score from not where I saved it to. Even if I save as a different name in a different place, Score Properties doesn't change. If I close that score and re-open, from the new location, Score Properties is updated.
Notepad has no file properties view.
Word does not show the complete path for an open doc. that I can find. It will show a folder.
I'm not sure why I would use save as to find anything.
When I make significant changes to a score, I add a suffix to the title (through save as) in case I want to go back to the previous version. After all is done, I can delete the old versions. I can't remember ever needing to know the file path of whatever I'm working on.
Or have I missed the point of the complaint?
In reply to OK. I'm trying to follow… by bobjp
I am at a loss to explain "why would I ever need to know the file path". To list associated files? To delete? To access it from a command line or other application? To copy? To find from the online upload form? How many do you want?
In reply to I am at a loss to explain … by [DELETED] 1831606
Well, looking at what MuseScore uses to display the path in that dialog, it is very clearly by design to show the path used to open the file.
But indeed that design can get challenged and changed and IMHO should.
In reply to I am at a loss to explain … by [DELETED] 1831606
Sure, I need to know the location, but not necessarily the full path. The computer I use most of the time has one drive. I don't have several files open at once. MuseScore files or otherwise. That's asking for trouble, to me. I don't use cmd to open anything but a few routines. I can't think of a time I opened the same file in different software. Delete is easy. I don't use the online upload. As I don't upload.
I mainly commented because I'm open to doing something better than the way I currently do things. But frankly I've never used the Score Properties option.
No issue in the tracker yet?
In reply to No issue in the tracker yet? by Jojo-Schmitz
#301124: "Score pathname" in "Score properties" not updated on "Save As..."