chord sound suggestion

• Aug 11, 2021 - 20:45

Major Chords don't play as 1-3-5-M7 ... unless the 7 is there.

It's common in the Jazz Community, for Major Chords to be written without the 7
(type in "C Triangle" .... not C Triangle 7)

But MS only plays the C Triad (1-3-5) when I type in C Triangle ...

So C Triangle, sounds the same as C.

Any advise please?


In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Thanks Jojo!

I just read your thread, noting "C Triad is sometimes written C Triangle"

Uhg! Seems that is somehow true.

There should be a law ... writing "C" is all you need to indicate a C triad.

Can't imagine anyone writing CM or C Triangle to indicate a simple 1-3-5 triad .... unreal

In reply to by allen49

It's real because most jazz musicians would see "C" and think, "triads are for nerds" and add color tones and so forth, so someone came up with the idea of using a triangle to mean, "please play just the triad". Otherwise there really really be no get that result.

Unfortunately, the triangle is also used for something else, so it's kind of useless for the purpose of saying "triad".

Ambiguous notations are never a good idea, hence the recommendation to notate in a way all musicians will be able to understand. And that means, add an explicit 7. I also strongly recommend against the triangle, FWIW, as that's only recognized by a relatively small percentage of musicians worldwide compared to abbreviations for "major" (like "ma" that is used by almost all major jazz publishers, or "maj7" that's used more in the rock world).

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Appreciate the Advise Marc,

I hear what you are saying ... it is key to standardize ... and the ^ is not universal ... and the nerd factor!
my thoughts:

A) the simple "C" instructs the keys player to Not add color - to be happy being nerdy.
Cause this allows the Soloist to be the star (gives the soloist color options)
(don't tie the soloists hands, which is what you do when you play too many notes)

B) the benefit of C^:
1) it's smaller then "CMA7" or "CM7" so easier to fit when you have multiple changes in one bar!
2) C^ avoids the Cm vs CM potential error (no need to guess if the M is a Large / Small)

my hope, is that I can keep my C^ ... and musecore will play "CM7" instead of "C"

Again Thank You for considering Marc

In reply to by allen49

I understand what you are saying, but I still strongly advise people to use unambiguous notation. Standardization is too much to ask, but yeah, avoiding things like m/M confusion is good. And so it is, I think, with triangle by itself.

But, for the cases where one really wish to notate a chord one way (for the sake of one's circle of friends who are clued in on the specific intent of the notation), but to have it played as if notated another, the easy solution there is to simply disable playback for the notated chord, then add a second invisible one for playback.

And then perhaps someday the "jazz" interpretation for triangle will be expanded to add the seventh. Meanwhile, do consider turning on the "jazz" interpretation if you haven't already - it will at least add color tones.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

And why should we, people who write jazz, have to suffer and do everything the hard way, just because someone who's apparently never seen a chord symbol in their life, thinks the Δ symbol is too ambiguous, because some people who wouldn't even be able to perform the music, wouldn't get it? Why should we, who are used to a certain way of notating chords, have to conform to your ideas of what your classical chord symbols should look?

In reply to by allen49

Some tricks I've learned over the years:
If a chord belongs to the Root Key of that piece, if it is in the (I / root) position, then something of the Maj7 / m7 type is usually not written next to it; is left bare. eg: C chord in C Major Key.

The exception is: some few chord writers (in some rare places) write 6 or 6/9 here to avoid Maj7, because they don't want the maj7 degree of the chord to be used here. // In order not to use the minor seventh degree, there are also those that use m6/9 for the root degree of the Minor dorian mode: Im6/9.

Over time, some have used C^ to denote this bare root state, and this sign is also used as ^7 for the Maj7 chord. Then they shortened it (as a shortcut) and started using the "^" sign by itself instead of Maj7. As a reason for this, while 3-voice chords are used in pop music, 4-voice chords are used in jazz music. //Rarely, I've also seen 7 used in a circle. But these shortcuts can only be understood by a small group of people who accept that this is so.

Suggestion: To show the Maj7 chord: Type Maj7, Ma7 or ^7.
Because Maj, Ma, or ^ simply indicate that the chord is Major, and normally means nothing else. Just as for Minor: min, mi, m and "_" are used.

In reply to by Ziya Mete Demircan

Yes, this sort of convention is common. For the diatonic I and IV chord in major keys, I typically just notate the triad and assume jazz musicians will know what to do with it. But, I know different editors have different standards. Another common one is to notate them both as major seventh chords, unless the root is prominent in the melody, in which case it is notated as a sixth chord. The rationale being, there exist voicings of major seventh chords that don't work well with the root in the melody. Of course, there are also voicings that do work well, but the convention is nonetheless pretty widely used in jazz fakebooks,

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

By the way, let me note one more point of view:
There was a local music theorist who always advocated writing Maj7(#11) for the fourth degree of the major.
When we objected that "#11 is not appropriate to be played in this position", he argued that the degree was not added there to be played, but to show that the chord is fourth degree of the Major scale (not first degree).
But considering that chords are written to be played, this theoretical spelling doesn't make much sense either.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

i have yet to come across someone understanding the major 7 symbol as meaning "play just a triad." It just doesn't make any sense. Moreover, there is no justification whatsoever for there not being any options for chord notation preferences. I hate having to read the name of the chord written out with letters. For some groups of people, CΔ is much more understandable and quicker to read than Cmaj7. Even CΔ7 is just extra clutter. CΔ is as unambiguous as it gets, and for the people for whom the score is made, it is the best option.

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