Page Settings on layout

• Sep 10, 2014 - 17:45

Hello, I don't see where to find a previous Forum discussion on page Settings/printing I had with Marc Sabatella and others awhile back, but anyway, my printer only prints 81/2 11 inches standard typing paper. I was told I could set such a size under page settings and the MS display ;would look normal even though for a large orchestral/Operatic score and print However, when I click on apply/OK, all it does is it cuts the score in half. (Bottom half missing) It does not miniaturize the large score to the smaller size.I don't get it. What is happening .


The page size indeed changes only the page size; it doesn't scale everything smaller. It's a separate setting in the same dialog that does that - the Scaling (Space) parameter, where you literally choose the size of the space between staff lines.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I do not fully get this. So to you have to choose an almost microscopic space between staff lines in order to actually get a larger size score to print on 8 1/2 by 11 paper ? I also don't understand the Print preview on this--shoul? I thought dn't that show the actual way your miniaturized score should look. I thought you once told me that I could set the score size to be a 8/12 by 11 but the display on MS woud look normal-it does, but the results are still not aa score 812 by 11 but just the larger score printin with the bottom half of the score cut off. Sorry I'm having a hard time getting this--I'm, not particularly good at technology, but I try.

In reply to by delhud2

Well, sure, of course you need small staves to fit a lot of them on a single 8.5"x11" piece of paper. That's not some weird quirk of MuseScore - that's simple math. Not sure why you were expecting otherwise, but you'd have the same issues trying to do this by hand with pencil and paper. That's why orchestra scores are not normally published on paper so small.

So yes, you can make your score fit on 8.5x11" paper if you really want, but you will indeed need a tiny staff size to make that happen. I've never suggested otherwise - that's would be physically impossible. it just makes no sense to expect otherwise. If you change to a smaller paper size than your are currently using, you will need to change to smaller staff sizes as well. it couldn't possibly be any different. If you have 20 baseballs that just barely fit into a box, and then you switch to a smaller box, I'm sorry, but those same 20 baseballs won't fit any more. If you want 20 balls in the smaller box, you'll be needing to switch to golf balls or something. It's just plain common sense.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I see what you are saying, thanks for your reply. I just thought that somehow electronic wizardry would miniaturize the score when you set the size to typing size paper.(i thought I remembered you told me that the score display would look normal size, but the printing would be miniaturized. )i really just need to know if I can expect this score to be printed out somehow somewhere from my files. Even though many Conductors now of course do not use large paper scores at all, but electronic scores from the podium. Thanks, Del

In reply to by delhud2

I *did* say that your score would automatically scale down smaller - but I never said it would happen *just* by changing the page. All along, I meant, you would need to change the paper size *and* the scaling factor. They are both in the same dialog, and you can see them both at once, and the print preview shows you how it will will, so it's incredibly easy to make this happen. But yes, you need do need to change both the page size and the scaling factor, and then everything happens automatically.

In reply to by delhud2

Forget trying to print direct.

In fact forget trying to print orchestral scores on standard letter paper.

It's just not big enough.

If you must do it export the score to PDF then print from your PDF reader - that will scale the page appropriately - but best of luck trying to read it without a magnifying glass!

In reply to by ChurchOrganist

printing would just be, even tiny, a way of preserving the score. If my MS files crashed, I would have 2 years of work on my Opera down the drain. I understand does have a backup file system in case my computer crashed and my files were somehow lost/destroyed. Also, I am not writing on MS for fun, it's for professional reasons. At some point, I may have to show a producer or Conductor a printed score of my opera. Of course,m it would have to be on much larger paper than typing size! Now I am wondering if my MS files can be sent in an e-mail to a printing company, and they could print my files out somehow from the electronic source?

In reply to by ChurchOrganist

My PDF reader would be Adobe Reader? I know I have Adobe reader files. The thing is, I do not have a full pencil and paper full score of the opera hand- written out to preserve it--just the piano/vocal score which I directly composed and indicated orchestration with standard abbreviations, etc. I am creating the FUll Score and entering it on MS at the same time. thanks, Del

In reply to by delhud2

If you have a score that is currently set to a large page size, and you save to PDF, then when someone opens that PDF up on their computer - using Adobe Reader or any other program that can open PDF files - and tries to print, there should be an option to "scale" the entire document to a different paper size when printing. So yes,if you send them a PDF file generated from your full size score, they can probably print it on letter paper in miniature without your needing to send a separate version of the score where you have already changed the page size and scaling from within MuseScore.

I assume that is how most people work in the orchestral world. They work full size on large paper in MuseScore or Finale or Sibelius and save as PDF. They can then decide whether to simply view the PDF on screen or whether to print it. And if they decide to print it, they will most likely print it on large paper (most copy/print shops will have a large format printer one can use for this purpose). It is *possible*, but unlikely, they will decide to use the "scale to a different paper size" option in Adobe Reader or whatever their favorite PDF reading program is and print to letter size paper - because common sense tells us that a piece of letter paper with 20 or more staves on it is going to be completely unreadable.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I read your reply carefully and it makes sense to me. I will certainly "go with the info". So I can assume that copy/print shops could print it on a large-format printer by my sending MS files to them in an e-mail or something as an attachment? Obviously, I have NO paper large- size score to copy from yet. One other point, you told me one can use the "Hide Empty Measures (or was it Staves) option--is that used for printing ? But you said this may cause a bug about what appears on each page that you set in the upper right hand corner. Thank You.del

In reply to by delhud2

You would have to send a PDF file, not a MuseScore file. But yes, assuming you export your full size score to PDF, any copy shop would be capable of printing that full size (eg, on 11x17 paper, which is common for this purpose in the US) or reducing it down to whatever other size you wanted. Some might want it as an email attachment, some might prefer it on a thumb drive.

As for Hide Empty Staves, that's a completely unrelated topic that has nothing to do with lpage layout / scaling settings. You can use it or not use at your discretion regardless of page size. But yes, there are lots of bugs with it in 1.3 such that unless you know about them and are very careful about how you work around them, it probably won't work well enough for you.

These issues with Hide Empty Staves should be fixed by the time 2.0 comes out, and feel free to install the Beta version to see for yourself- but *DO NOT SAVE OVER YOUR ORIGINAL 1.3 VERSION* using the 2.0 Beta. It already defaults to making you pick a new file to save to, but don't try to get around it by resaving to the same file.

...if you really want to print a hard copy. (Of course, as already mentioned, a commercial printer can accommodate much larger paper.)

I use MuseScore primarily for solo instrumental lead sheets and use scale and margin settings as discussed in this forum to produce scores of (mostly) 2 pages per song - to eliminate page turning during performance.

If you print in portrait mode (as opposed to landscape) you might consider purchasing a ream of legal size paper. The paper size is 8½" x 14", almost 30% more space. In portrait mode, I can comfortably fit 5 more staves (without lyrics) than if I use standard letter size. Sometimes this comes in handy.
Including a title frame, I can get around 17 easily readable staves on a page.

FWIW: On legal size paper, I even fit a 28 instrument (with 2 lyrics) page from one of your scores using a scaling of Space = 1.067mm (0.042in. - approximately the gap on an automotive spark plug). At that size, though, the print starts looking like those tiny G. Shirmer pocket editions of orchestral scores.


In reply to by Jm6stringer

HI, jm6stringer,

Thank You very much for your reply! It gives me a lot to think about! Very good of you to experiment with fitting a page from one of my scores (Actually, they are all one score, Act I. of the Opera, I am just breaking them up into smaller files). The info you gave about scaling, etc. on the legal size paper will be very helpful to me. My own printer, though, only prints 8 1/2 by 11 paper. Yes, When I was a student I spent a lot of time looking at tiny Schirmer Pocket Editions! Yours, Del Hudson

In reply to by delhud2

I am surprised that you can only print on 8½" x 11" paper. While it is true that the physical width of the printer's paper feed mechanism (approx. 8½") is a limiting factor (which is why there's the available 'landscape' setting); most printers have settings for paper size (A4, letter, postcard, etc.) and type of paper (plain, glossy, etc.). These printer preferences (or properties) are usually accessible from within the app, like in MuseScore. Legal paper is longer, not wider, so once it feeds into the printer, the printer needs to know that it has a greater length of paper on which to print.
See image:

(The printer settings window in my image is an example - yours may look different, but should have similar settings.)

Anyway... regards, and good luck with your project.

Attachment Size
Printer settings.png 68.74 KB

In reply to by Jm6stringer

Hello again, Thanks for this further information! I have only had a smalal Canon printer for a few months, and, since it'sw lenth is only for 11 inches, i thought it could not do legal. (I am not much of a techno person--I know little about printers.) So I will check out my settings, as you show in your example from your printer--later today when i get time, or may have to wait till Monday. Thanks again! Del

In reply to by Jm6stringer

I do have legal size setting! (Had no idea) Canon Printer instructions are wildly confusing. I will have to get some legal paper and try it! Though i don't see where the extra length "sits" There is 1 inch it looks like past the 11" length, after that, does the extra just hang over outside the printing area? i would think the cover of the printer would have to be closed and might sit on 2 or 3 inches of the extra length???! (And you can only do this with an electronic file? To copy a legal size from the top of the printer would be impossible? It would not even all fit in on the printing rectangle area. ??? Thanks PS Oh OH, I think I was confusing an actual paper document copying with electronic file copying! Sorry

In reply to by delhud2 found legal size.
I do not own a Canon printer, but generally speaking:

For printing a copy of your score for posterity (or that a person can hold in their hands)... would load blank legal size paper in the same automatic sheet feeder of your printer where you normally place regular size paper. After you tell the printer you have longer paper, it will utilize the additional length of the 14" paper.
As I mentioned earlier, I was able to fit one full system of your score on a page and did not need a magnifying glass to read it. (Though I wouldn't set it up on a music stand and try to play from it.)

For scanning (i.e. taking a picture, or printing a copy) of a legal size document...
...the scanner glass, whether on a separate scanner or on a multifunction printer, would have to be at least 14" long.

My multifunction printer can fully print on legal size paper, but the scanner bed is only 11" so I could never make a full copy of legal size in a single operation. The excess hangs off the scanner glass (outside of the cover) and must be repositioned if I wish to save the whole document. In that case, instead of trying to copy one of my legal size scores, I simply print from the 'electronic' (.mscz) file which happily resides on my computer along with MuseScore.


Thanks once again for your informative comment. I am hoping to have time get some legal paper this week and try a few pages. I did not know you could use the mcsz. (?) file to print with or do anything with. And I guess I have to make my score excerpt into a PDF file? Del

Is there no way to print the score so that it continues onto the next page of printing? That seems to be a reasonable request rather than having to seek professional printing help. Each musescore page might be printed on two actual pages at the printer.

In reply to by Simpaw

Not quite sure what you mean - having a page size physically smaller than your paper, and having MuseScore figure out for you how to slit it up so you can have two half-pages you then tape together? Not sure why you'd want that rather than just running down to the nearest price t shop that can actually handle large paper - probably there is one within a mile or two of you - but if you prefer taping, probably your printer has settings for this. Or failing that, use a large page size, export to PDF, then deal with it in a program that specializes in such things.

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