Text above title frame cannot be selected.

• Jul 28, 2022 - 00:01

Hello to all!
I am creating several piano/vocal scores for a theatrical production. My header starts on page 2 of the scores. Inside the main title box on page 1, I have the title, subtitle, and composer. I have added " text" to this frame (that contains text for the Title, etc.), that needs to be offset so it is up above the box. Once I save the file, any text that is now located above the title box can no longer be selected. Therefore, it cannot be edited or even deleted.

Is there a specific way to select the text that is a part of the Fram, but offset so it is seen outside of the frame's dotted lines? Is this a known bug?

To recreate the situation, create a new score, give it a title using the wizard. In the frame that is created to hold title info, right-click to add "text." Then using the offset parameter for Y (or by dragging), lower the number until the text has risen above the frame. Save the document. Close and reopen. The text cannot be selected.

Many thanks in advance to anyone who has an aide of how to fix this. There is probably a better way to add text that I want above that title box, so I am still looking for that. In the meantime, though, I now have text that must be changed or deleted in several scores, and it seems impossible to remove or change it without being able to select it.

I am thankful for this amazing program and all of the people who contribute to these forums!


Attachment Size
Title Frame with unselectable text.png 17.89 KB


without being able to select it right-click in the frame, add text, Right-click, Select all similar elements then use Ctrl+R .
above that title box Insert a vertical frame

Attachment Size
MitchTest.mscz 11.54 KB

In reply to by Shoichi

Thank you so much! Your suggestion of selecting similar items helped me get rid of the unelectable text!! I selected similar items and then used the "more..." option to clarify only "frame text." SO HELPFUL!

I am still not able to add a new vertical frame above the title box. I can add one above the first staff, but I need it above the title box. Any suggestions on how to do that?

In reply to by mpengra

Update: after inserting a vertical frame above the title box, I added 2 elements of "frame text." One justified left and the other justified right. After deselecting that text and looking at another area of the score, I returned to the first page to adjust the offset of that newest text in the top vertical frame. The text on the left is selectable, but the text on the right is not. Is there a detail about text in frames that I am missing?

In reply to by mpengra

By default, if you added them the same way, they should have the same properties. Are you sure you added "frame text" and not some other type of text? In any case, the Inspector lets you change properties like this.

Non-selectable text would either be text in the header/footer, or text that actually "lives" on another page but was dragged all the off that page onto a different once. You'd need to reset it by selecting the measure or frame it is attached to and pressing Ctrl+R. Or switching to continuous view, which loses the whole page distinction.

If you continue to have trouble, please attach the actual score and steps to reproduce the problem. Then we can understand and assist better.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Here is the template I am editing. This shows the automatic title box area with specific text types added, all of which are selectable. The specifically formatted Song Number is partially within the text box and has remained selectable, although I want it higher so its height matches the location of the header on the following pages. The "NTYSMN" text is frame text, and it's offset was raised to align the text with the Song Number. "NTYSMN" is not selectable.

I have not yet inserted a vertical frame above this title box, but did insert one on another score document. The issue is the same with "frame text" whose style was changed, even when staying within the frame. Not sure what I am missing. It seems to be something relating to styles of frame text within frames.

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NTYSMN Score Template.mscz 20.28 KB

In reply to by mpengra

I don't have any trouble selecting NTYSMN. Maybe you are clicking too close to the frame and are selecting that instead? Try zooming in if necessary. Also note that if two elements overlap each other, you can select the one underneath the currently-selected element via Ctrl+click.

Of your texts, NTYSMN is set to Frame style, but the number to User-1.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I did save the style of the song number to User-1 And I am clicking on "NTYSMN" in every possible way, also when zoomed in. I noticed yesterday that some of this same kind of text was selectable at one time (eureka!) and then no longer so a few minutes later.

I have MS version and am using Mac OS 10.14.6 Mojave.

In reply to by mpengra

Maybe try closing and restarting MusecScore? And be sure that is the exact same file you are loading - don't rely on your recent files list or anything else that doesn't guarantee you are testing the same file you attached.

If you continue to have trouble, can you make a screen recording so we can see what is happening? For me, nothing I try fails to select with the copy of the score you attached.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Besides the unelectable text anomaly, can you help me with another way to reach the goal of putting header-like text at the top of the first page that is aligned with the actual header text on subsequent pages?

I looked through the various format: style options and have tried changing page top margins and changing text style offset in header text, but haven't found a way to align text in the page 1 vertical frame with the headers on other pages. Is there a way to create an independent header for page 1?

In reply to by mpengra

I guess you don't want to put the boxed number in the header because you need it to be styled differently from the rest of the header? In that case, a vertical frame - or text frame, actually - at the top of each page would be the way. That frame will always be the same distance from the top of the page by default, as is the header, so whatever offset you choose for the boxed number on one page, just use that same offset on all pages, and they will all be aligned the same way.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

In addition to the song number that is only on page 1 (of every score document), there is also the "NTYSMN" text line. The header is working out fine for page 2 and beyond. I just need to be able to place text elements on page 1 that are aligned with the rest of the pages' header text elements. Can this be done without having to insert text frames on each page manually?

I have attached a picture of how page 1 and page 2 look in a score. The text elements are aligned which is great. However, that text at the top of page 2 is unselectable. I do know how to delete it now, but haven't figured out how to style text in a vertical frame to match the height on the headers on the other pages.

*I have restarted MS and have the same issues with selecting.

Attachment Size
Title Frame with unselectable text.png 17.89 KB

In reply to by mpengra

Yes, a frame on every page is what I was assuming you were doing all along. Definitely the way to get elements on every page aligned if they are not in the header. I'm still unclear on exactly what you want to appear on which page, though. if I'm understanding correctly, you actually don't want that, you just want the header on other pages, and to use the title frame to place elements on the first page at the same height. Seems you've already achieved that, right? Or is there something else you still want to add or change?

I do see the problem with the apparently-unselectable text, though. You actually do have overlapping texts there - that text is undernearth the actual header text, which is "#1 - Song Title 2". So, the Ctrl+click method works fine to select the NTYSMN text underneath once your first attempt selects the header text. The clue for me was clicking where it says NTYSMN and then noticing down in the status bar it says that is the selected text, then also noticing, the corresponding text on pages 2 & 3 is selected. Even though that text is prevented from displaying on page 1, it is still present as far as selection is concerned.

As for why it worked for me to select previously, apparently I was clicking a portion of the text that is not overlapped by the header - the left edge of the "N". I had tried different versions of zooming in and clicking in different spots vertically to see if I would accidental get the frame instead, but apparently it was always the left edge of the "N".

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Wow! Great sleuthing, and I do appreciate your taking to time to inspect it. I had noticed the status line at lower left, and had also noticed the highlighted elements of the header on page 2. I had not considered that perhaps it was registering in the global header, just invisible for page 1. As I offset the text up so that it aligned with the header text on page 2, it had overlapped into the (not visible) header for page 1 is. Great to know this about headers!

Many thanks to everyone for your thoughts and guidance!

"There is probably a better way to add text that I want above that title box, so I am still looking for that"

One trick is to add a separate Vertical Frame above the Title frame. Then place your higher Text element in this new vertical frame. I use this for scores which have a dedication placed above the work's title.

... and I notice that Shoichi did in fact suggest this! "Insert a vertical frame"

In reply to by DanielR

Thank you for this idea. It would be the perfect solution for the first page of all of my scores, however, I don't see how to add a vertical frame above the title box. I can "insert' one above the first staff, but there isn't any other element to select, directing MuseScore to insert or add it. If I select the title box frame, the "insert vertical frame" choice is not in the menu.

how are you doing it in your own scores? Many thanks again!

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Hi and thank you for your input! Using the Add menu or the palette does work! I was using the right-click to call up the "insert vertical frame," but that option is not available from that path. Not sure why, but I am grateful that your ideas are better solutions!

In reply to by mpengra

That's because vertical frames can't be inserted within vertical frames, and that's what the right-click "Add" menu is for in this case - inserting elements within the selected frame. I would agree it's a bit inconsistent with how the similarly-labeled right-click "Add" menu works for measures.

If I'm understanding the purpose of this text correctly, seems it might make more sense to just use the Header for this - see Format / Style / Header, Footer.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I am using the header footer for specific text for all pages after the first. For the first page only, I need to show a large song number and a bit of other text, and I want it at the same offset as the headers on all subsequent pages. If there was a way to create an independent header/footer for a single page, that would work and be helpful for including in my score template, but I haven't discovered that capability. Being able to add a vertical frame should work well, so thank you again!

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