How to access Piano roll editor in Musescore 4?

• Dec 15, 2022 - 14:07

Is is possible to open up the piano roll editor window? I can't seem to find the option
I use it to fine-tune dynamics, durations and the positions of specific notes.


In reply to by Preston Le

Wow! I just posted a message about the fact that soundfont features and effects missing from Musescore 4. I used pianoroll features heavily in my Buxtehude pieces that I transcribed to MuseScore 3!

I cannot recommend this software, because features did not get transferred to it from the previous version, and scores don't work at all right.

Please pay cose attention to the two fugues.

In reply to by Inna Rodobolska

4.1 is here, no piano roll editor.

I have been advised that my "nuances and customizations" are better off if I stay with 3.6.2 and sacrifice the beautiful score engravings (which, frankly I can barely see--I do music for listening.)

I'm afraid I'm a complainer, but really, I cannot use the 4.x software, in its current condition. I've already been told I have to sacrifice the nice reverb that was in 3.6.2 if I want those beautiful engraved notes, and do extra work if I want the reverb. When working with pipe organ music, I need the reverb to work in real time, because of the nuances.

I hope all this changes. I'm not giving up Linux to use Musescore 4.

In reply to by Chuck Bermingham

LIKE: "I do music for listening."

I can't think of any other use for music :)

To me, MuseScore is better than Finale only because it gives me control of the playback --- on a note-by-note basis via "piano roll." They took away the heart of this MUSIC GENERATING software! And now, it's only a MUSIC PRINTING software. Can someone tell me how, in MuseScore 4, one can do what piano roll allowed you to do in MuseScore 3?

As a result, none of the songs written with MuseScore 4 sound good when I play them back. For a piano piece, for instance, the left hand accompaniment plays as loud as the right hand (theme.)

In reply to by nimbears

I don't think the main team realizes how much more important the piano roll was than musesounds is [arguably].

While I often write scores and then export them into a DAW for the final creation, I loved using the piano roll to inform my writing using the interpretation I'd expect to hear/desire, to make mock-ups without the need for a DAW or separate score, and setting up my scores for midi export in a much more straightforward/easy-to-manage process than what is gained from DAWs.

Musesounds has basically become a smarter VST with better native integration to elements you add into the score. It leaves little to no room for user control interpretation of sheet music outside of making a separate score which it 10x more complicated than working in a piano roll with at least being able to easily drag/ customize velocity, note start-time, note length, and perhaps fine pitch. [Without affecting the score]

The even more frustrating part is that different styles will call for different interpretation anyways, so investing more effort into making musesounds an even better/consistent tool that will likely serve as a middle ground for most popular styles feels pointless from the outside. It still seems better to put future development effort into returning convenient playback customization the hands of the user (using midi as the middle-man). This will open a lot more flexibility for playback / midi export... especially with plugins... meaning the effort used to 'fix' musesounds can be easily addressed in more streamlined ways anyways. And then users will be able to more easily control vst playback (when dealing with things like legato). It seems almost pointless to add VST support without piano roll capabilities when you think about why you use them over soundfonts...

I understand there could be serious things holding them back, such as not wanting to go with the previous editor and other things... but it's not even seemingly a remote priority and when people try to address it the don't get anything.

It doesn't need to be a DAW, but being able to conveniently access/ change velocity, note start-time, note length, and perhaps fine pitch on a grid without affecting the score, again, would dramatically improve the experience with playback in general (musesounds, VSTs, soundfonts) and midi export.

Sorry for the rant/vent. I just wanted to make some points and am somewhat happy to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. I'm hoping the main team is already looking at it, though. They're doing an amazing job. It was just a huge blow to my workflow to not have that (when so many other parts of MS4 are amazing/improved from MS3)

In reply to by graffesmusic

I've indeed seen some of these efforts. Aside from that one response saying they'll contact Mark Mckay when they're ready to add a PR, it's seemed pretty one sided. So perhaps a dead end indeed.

Now I'm wondering if it would be possible to build a pseudo PRE using plugin creation... I'm not sure if it's possible to affect note playback without affecting the score, but I guess it's worth looking into. Or maybe something else can be faked using the Jack implementation that may come in 4.4.

In reply to by speedmeteor101

My guess (or hope) is that MS5 will be a re-joining of the fork that seems to have taken place, bringing together the best of MS3 (functionality, especially is MS3.7) and MS4 (playback and UI). Hopefully the piano roll editor will re-appear during the lifetime of MS4.

For me, lack of plugin access to note start time and note length renders MS4 a non-starter since it cripples the guitar "Let Ring" plugin.

In reply to by yonah_ag

I think with MS4 running on a different version of qml, that wouldn't be possible, right?

And I guess that answered my question from above... Didn't realize there is no plugin access to note start time / note length...

I'm thinking using JACK's ability to play/pause to scores at the same time, a pseudo PRE may be made/ used to make modifications to a duplicate score behind the scenes as if you're only affecting playback (using a faked PR) but we'll have to cross that bridge when we get there

In reply to by Dylan Nicholson1

I agree that there's not a chance of that a chance of that happening soon, with musesounds being a large part of that... but that's mainly due to the team not wanting to rebuild the same/ a similar system. It's not inevitably different due to conceptual architecture.

What would likely be needed to make this work is the equivalent of having two projects open (one for notation and one for mock-up interpretation) where the notation one is 'master' and the playback one in 'servant.' And instead of editing the 'servant' score directly, a piano roll is the middle man.
As far as I know, the old PRE simply made use of smaller divisions like 64th notes in order to change note length 'under the hood.' Instead of having a separate virtual score, the playback engine was directly accessible. So this simulated those micro adjustments that we get in most other PR. So the quickest way to get a piano roll would be some kind of score sync, with an editor to handle those... which is basically what was in 3.6, except the current score being directly edited under the notation (in the same way) instead of a separate score.

The problems I see that prevent this from happening is that
1. That's a lot of work when there other tasks determined as high priority to fix, edit, and implement
2. The team is not done rebuilding the playback engine how they eventually want to (which may be what you meant by musesounds making it inevitably different)
3. They don't think it wise to spend time/resources on something that will be replaced or revamped with the new engine

I'd prefer a temporary editor, and one that doesn't even edit the main score, but I doubt anyone else would make it so I'd have to try to figure that out myself. I've seen a user do some cool things with JACK to sync two instances of MS (which may be getting merged into 4.4) so I might be able to figure out a clunky workaround.
Probably not very soon though

In reply to by hahndorfmusic

It's not on the cards for 4.4 (see

But understand that it's not just implementing the piano roll itself that's the problem, it's the fact that the underlying playback engine no longer makes use of the same micro-adjustments to note-starts and ends and other controllers (dynamics etc.) that you used to be able to use (particularly when using Muse Sounds).

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