Save button in MuseScore 4
Just installed the update to MuseScore 4, looking everything over. Am I just blind or was the save button for the toolbar taken out of this version?
It's not impossible I'm just overlooking it, I didn't notice where the undo button got moved to right away, but I can't for the life of me find the save button. I see save under file>save, and I know there's an auto save, but out of habit and expediency, with a dash of caution i like having a button to give a quick hit when I'm thinking about it and have the peace of mind my work is saved, without giving the action too much conscious thought.
Comments
In reply to I don't know that I agree… by stargazer1682
Saving has nothing to do with note input, that’s why the note input toolbar is the wrong place. There should be a “file operations” or “global controls” or some such so you have independent control over the visibility, organization, and position of them separately - as was the case (to some extent) in MU3. Or, if there is going to only be one toolbar, it should
Just be called “main toolbar” and note specifically dedicated to “note input”. But that would also be a significant step backwards from MU3 and a worse design from a usability perspective.
In reply to Saving has nothing to do… by Marc Sabatella
And yet, lumping them all together works perfectly well, so... I don't know what to tell you other than, I don't care. 🤷♂️
In reply to And yet, lumping them all… by stargazer1682
But can’t you see, that’s an exactly as short-sighted as if I were saying, because I don’t use the save buttons, I shouldn’t care if they are present? That is, the current doesn’t suits me fine, so why should I care if it doesn’t work for others? Obviously, the answer is, we should all care about being inclusive of everyone’s needs. So while I get that a design that lumps the save button onto the note input toolbar and doesn’t allow them to separate might suit your needs, hopefully you can see there would exist use cases others would care about where the ability to separate them would make sense. That’s exactly why it’s important to employ good user-centered design practices, and not to rush into whatever seems most expedient.
In reply to But can’t you see, that’s an… by Marc Sabatella
So while I get that a design that lumps the save button onto the note input toolbar and doesn’t allow them to separate might suit your needs, hopefully you can see there would exist use cases others would care about where the ability to separate them would make sense.
On any "toolbar" (note entry bar, playback bar, menu bar, etc.) which contains various icons, don't those icons exist to perform different/separate) tasks (e.g., make a note sharp, change its duration, place an accent, start playback, show available Tools, etc.)? Is not each icon separated into its own little "box" when hovered over?
To what ability to separate them do you refer? Perhaps the ability to re-locate the save button icon on the screen?
In reply to So while I get that a design… by Jm6stringer
Yes, the ability to place the note input toolbar in a different location than the file operations / global toolbar, to easily toggle them on or off or undock them separately, etc. The MU3 was reasonably well customizable in these ways. It would be a mistake to take MU4 further in a direction away from this.
In reply to That's all well and fine… by stargazer1682
@stargazer1682 wrote:
There are things I use icons/buttons for, and there are things I use keyboard shortcuts for; and sometimes there's overlap between the two that just depends on the circumstances.
Exactly!
Sometimes one is keyboard/text focused and typing merrily away (e.g., lyrics, chord symbols, note names). Other times one may be heavily mouse/graphics focused (e.g., clicking on palette and/or toolbar items, making lasso selections, perhaps dragging misplaced elements, and don't forget about using the notorious drum input palette which often requires the mouse). Then, with the mouse already in hand, it is often easier and quicker to click on a conveniently located 'Save' icon. So, there is overlap.
@Marc Sabatella wrote:
... to combine it with the undo/redo buttons.
Agreed!
All of us have surely noticed the 'new' location for 'Undo' (and the related forum complaints about moving it so far away from the "battlefield" where all the action occurs). To wit:
Drag a time signature with the mouse onto the score, and screw up the following measures? - click 'undo'.
Cut/ paste a section and 'mouse click' it earlier/later in the score and miss the correct insertion point? - click 'undo'.
It would be nice to have it handily available instead of way, way up in the top right screen corner (adjacent to close/minimize window!) - and nearly camouflaged (especially when no changes to the score have yet been made).
In reply to @stargazer1682 wrote: There… by Jm6stringer
I'm with Mikey. I go back to Windows 93. What that means is that I have seen a lot changes, reversals, and omissions in every kind of program upgrades. And every time there are a lot of complaints. People refusing to upgrade. People moving to other software. People get to do what they need to do. But I'm not sure they get to demand that developers change something they don't like. There are plenty of things that I don't like about MU4 that are far more important to me than the save button (which I never used in MU3) or the camera tool. Fine for me to say. Yes it is. I could spend my time trying to get them to change what I don't like. Or I could get on with it and do what I have the software for.
Sure, the undo button may be in an odd place. Not sure where a good place for all the buttons would be. I use a trackball mouse so moving to it isn't hard.
In reply to I'm with Mikey. I go back to… by bobjp
What an asinine response. They're stripping features people want to keep using, and you liken wanting to 𝘯𝘰𝘵 regress the functionality of the software to using an old OS?
If you don't use it, why does it matter to you? As Jojo-Schmitz has demonstrated, you don't even have to look at it if you don't want to, while still allowing the convenience for people who do want it. It literally has no bearing on you if you don't want it to.
In reply to What an asinine response… by stargazer1682
I'm sorry you failed to understand my response.
your brain is wired to prefer the save button. Believe me, I get it. I f you are someone who uses the computer keyboard to input notes, think about this. Both your hands are on the keyboard. You decide to save your work.
1. You move your hand to the mouse, or trackpad.
2. You move the mouse, or fingers on the trackpad, to the save button.
3. You select the save button.
You can do this fairly quickly because you've done it for a long time.
It just seems to me to be even quicker to just hit ctrl+s. No? If the complaints are that no save button slows people done, why not do something that is quicker to begin with? Ctrl+s has been mentioned a number of times. Each time it is put down. It is different than a save button. Does that make it inconvenient?
Besides the missing save button is not a regression. If it was there and didn't work or if there was no save button in MU3, then it would be a regression.
In reply to I'm with Mikey. I go back to… by bobjp
Ah yes... the old days of monochromatic CRT screens, with DOS and text entry on a command line, having to constantly invoke 'CD' to change directories) and 'DIR' to display an on-screen list of files contained within a directory:
![Computerfun - Ancient computer.jpg]( "Computerfun - Ancient computer.jpg")
Thank goodness the DOS shell appeared making life easier with a graphics environment which allowed for a mouse to select, delete, and drag file names. Afterwards, graphics improved with clickable icons to invoke commands instead of typing on the keyboard. (Speaking of keyboard commands, check out Lilypond: https://lilypond.org/text-input.html. @mikey12045 may appreciate its text intensive input)
Nowadays we have MuseScore and its WISIWYG (what you see is what you get) score display accompanied by a set of icons representing a whole bunch of functions. Sadly, the save icon was eliminated as being "too 90's".
No one here is making a "demand that developers change something they don't like". It's not about changing something they don't like; it's about leaving things alone.
The point @stargazer1682 makes is about "stripping features people want to keep using". Eliminating a perfectly functioning icon used by many (even though not used by some) is not an upgrade. It is a regression.
In reply to Ah yes... the old days of… by Jm6stringer
But it is too late to "leave things alone". It's already done. I agree that no save button is not an upgrade. Did they specifically say it was?
I go back further even than Windows. We used teletypes in college. No CRT.
In reply to Ah yes... the old days of… by Jm6stringer
(Speaking of keyboard commands, check out Lilypond: https://lilypond.org/text-input.html. @mikey12045 may appreciate its text intensive input)
No, I am certainly NOT in favor of text intensive input! Just the opposite. I'm in favor of shortcuts that save me from grabbing the mouse (or trackpad, or whatever) to implement a command that can be done with a keystroke.
Perhaps the various toolbars could be user-edited, allowing only the buttons that one wanted to be added or deleted. Or, the entire toolbar hidden. Those who want the Save icon, could display it. Your choice!
Hey bobjp! We learned Fortran. Create a stack of punch cards, wait overnight (the only time they could access the mainframe, 50 miles north) and in the morning, find that you left out a comma, so you had to do it over again!
In reply to (Speaking of keyboard… by mikey12045
Those who want the Save icon, could display it. Your choice!
Agreed, and also what @stargazer1682 suggests.
.
I'm in favor of shortcuts that save me from grabbing the mouse...
Sometimes, I'm in favor of a keyboard shortcut that saves me from grabbing the mouse.
Sometimes, I'm in favor of a Save icon that saves me from shifting to the computer keyboard.
@stargazer1682 also mentions this "overlap between the two that just depends on the circumstances."
Having both options available in MuseScore and allowing the user to decide, at that particular moment, which one is easier/quicker to use gets my vote.
(This thread is turning into a never-ending Fortran DO loop... ;-)