# Help - the timing does not agree!!!!!

• Jun 2, 2023 - 19:10

Hi folks: OK, I am driving myself crazy here. I am transcribing a John Williams score in 12/8 time to MuseScore. Here is a screenshot of the flute measure I am working on:

Note that it contains a septet + two dotted notes. The measure has no extra rests. This is John Williams writing this score remember.

Now in MuseScore, I inserted the same exact septet and two identical dotted notes in 12/8 time, but I have an 8th rest at the end of the measure.

HELP! What is going on?

To add the septet, select a dotted quarter (rest) at the beginning of that measure, goto Add/Tuplets/other and input a ratio of 7:6

In reply to by fsgregs

It means: put 7 notes of 16th in the space, where there are normal 6 notes of 16th (3 notes of 8th)
Sorry for my bad english, not my native language

Thanks for helping me last time. Now I have another two. How do I enter this, using 12/8 time?

I can't seem to get it entered correctly?

In reply to by HildeK

Thanks. Got the first one done OK but the 2nd one is not OK. When following the dotted quarter note suggestion, I get 5 eighth notes, not 16th notes, and when I try other combos, I still don't get it right. Please help one more time. Thanks so much.

In reply to by underquark

I suspect that 5 quarter notes is correct. Just because you see something in print, doesn't mean it is correct.

Does that ratio 5:6 ,make 5 quarters wrong?

In reply to by fsgregs

You have a 12/8 time signature. You need to start with a calculation:
In total, there must be 12 eighth notes or their equivalents. If you add the note and rest durations without the 5-tuplet, you will get 9 eighth notes: 6 eighth notes + one eighth rest on the left and six sixteenth notes (= three eighth notes) on the right. The result without the 5-tuplet is 6+3=9 eighth notes. There are three eighth notes or a dotted quarter remaining for the tuplet.

So write an eighth note, an eighth rest, four more eighth notes, then the dotted quarter rest as a placeholder for the tuplet, and finally the six 16th notes. Now select the dotted quarter rest and press Ctrl-5 for the 5-tuplet. Enter the notes in the tuplet.

Edit:
underquark is right. If you use only Ctrl-5, you get five eighth notes. If you use 5:6, the result is five sixteenths.
But it is only a visible difference: both variants have the same rhythm and sound.

In reply to by bobjp

See my addendum above.

With Ctrl-5 it becomes eighth notes, with Ratio 5:6 sixteenth notes. But it only looks different, rhythm and sound are the same.
Yes, it was late yesterday :-).

In reply to by HildeK

HildeK: Yep, I got eighth notes when I followed just inserting a quintet, but 16th notes when I also added the ratio of 5:6. Interesting that the notes play the same either way. I had not thought of that. What I just don't get is the ratio. What does 5:6 mean, as opposed to 6:5, or some other ratio? What is ratioing what?

In reply to by fsgregs

Normally there are six (6) sixteenth notes over a beat which in 12/8 is three eights long. When you write 5:6 you say you only want five (5) notes over that beat. 5:6 means play five notes in the time period it would normally take to play six notes.

I find it easier to sight read this if it's written in Musescores default way, i.e:

The quintuplet quaver is shorter than the standard quaver but longer than a semiquaver, as it should be.

However the writing of tuplets in music publishing is often written in other ways, as the example you show.

I've been trying to achieve it using jeetee's brilliant nested tuplet method as in this post:
https://musescore.org/en/node/333686 however at the moment it's beyond me.

Here's how I managed it:

1. Place a dotted crotchet where the quintuplet will be
2. Select the dotted crotchet and CTRL-2 to make it a duplet
3. Select the duplet quaver and press W to double it's length to make it a duplet crotchet
4. Turn off the number & bracket
5. Select the crotchet and CTRL-5 to make it a semiquaver quintuplet
6. Fill in the missing quintuplet semiquavers

Attachment Size
quintuplet3.JPG 42.21 KB

In reply to by rothers

Why so cumbersome?

1. Place a dotted crotchet where the quintuplet will be
2. Select the dotted crotchet or dotted crotchet rest and select "Add / Tuplets / Other... / Ratio 5:6" as described by underquark above.
3. Fill in the missing quintuplet semiquavers
That's all!