Alternating time signatures
Would it be possible to add the ability to list alternating time signatures at the beginning of the score? For example, for a song alternating between 6/4 and 4/4, both time signatures would be listed together in the first line, then the program would know to alternate between the two as new bars (measures) were added. (Here's a Wikipedia example, if my explanation wasn't clear.)
I know you could manually add a new time signature at the beginning of every bar to work around this, and that implementation would be tricky, especially when it comes to deleting bars (measures), so I understand if this is really low on the priority list.
Comments
The workaround might be more simple that you thought. So just in case, and for future readers.
For the snippet from wikipedia, I created a flute score in 6/8. Enter the first measure. Change the actual duration for measure 2 to 3/4 (right click on the measure -> Measure properties->actual duration). I enter the note for measure 2.
Then I added some leading space to the very first note (Right click on the note -> note properties). And I added the 3/4 sign from the text palette (Press Z to display it).
Of course, MuseScore does not know about the second time signature and will not pickup the right one according to the content of the measure but it seems a very rare use case no? Someone has other examples of such a notation?
In reply to The workaround might be more by Nicolas
This regular alternance is the rythm of Huapangos (north Mexico), and is found in many latino american music. That' the traditional introduction to La Sandunga (Tehuantepec, south of Mexico) .
There is also just hemiolas in ternary music...
The notation is disparate....
Often, specially in latino scores, the peculiarity is not given by any measure fugure....it is clear from the music.
And you may have 3/4 or 6/8 for the whole score. Or even 3/4 running by two, in such cases the hemiolas implies some indication denying any accent on the first time of the second measure.
But, in non-latino, and sometimes in latino, you find 3/4 and 6/8, either when requested , either at the beginning, in case of regular alternance..
I have quite a lot of such scores
So it's sure that the 3/4 6/8 sign would be useful.
In reply to The workaround might be more by Nicolas
But you would still have to that for every measure; the inconvenience is still a bother. I suggest that this be available in a future release.
In reply to The workaround might be more by Nicolas
How do you find 3/4 in the text palette?
In reply to How do you find 3/4 in the by imazi643
It's not in the text palette but in the symbols palette. Press Z or go to Create -> Symbols.
In reply to The workaround might be more by Nicolas
@lasconic
"Someone has other examples of such a notation?"
Yes: Brahms Op.15 No.5 Agnes, where the piece uses an irregular mix of 3/4 and 2/4:
https://musescore.com/openscore-lieder-corpus/scores/5087729
Sorry: it has taken over 8 years to reply...!
In reply to @lasconic "Someone has other… by DanielR
Why doesn't he use 5/4?
In reply to Why doesn't he use 5/4? by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
"Why doesn't he use 5/4?"
It wouldn't work. If you look at the pattern, using 5/4 would leave an "orphan" 2/4 measure in some places e.g. measure 9. Brahms really did mean to use mixed time signatures...
In reply to The workaround might be more by Nicolas
[duplicate post]
Definitely something I'd support for the 3/4 6/8 hemiola, though I don't know if it makes any sense for time signatures that alternate actual measure length. Mostly it would just be good to be able to have the visualization of the two times at the beginning. The automation of beaming would be nice but could be done manually.
I did the hemiola by just changing beam properties, with the start beam just begin the figure. I am doing a 3/4 in a 6/8 hemiola, the middle 2 I did the start beam and middle beam, and it was a-ok.
I imagine that you would put something lIke this [image]https://musescore.org/sites/musescore.org/files/2019-02/562883B8-3B34-4…]
but with the time signature as 10/4 and (2,2,3,3) after.
I second this request. Alternating time signatures are not uncommon in some literature.
In the meantime this can be accomplished the following way:
1) Pick one of the time signatures and assign it to all of the relevant measures. In the screenshot I picked 4/4
2) go to every other measure and change the actual duration to the real value
![Screenshot 2019-07-31 at 13.29.21.png]()
3) Change the time signature appearance to show both signatures by entering two values in each field.
![Screenshot 2019-07-31 at 11.47.43.png]()
4) Restore full measure rests for all measures. https://musescore.org/en/node/119161
This method works quite well for creating a score but it has a a few draw backs:
1) you cannot create distinct grouping for each signature. You have to alter each measure manually
2) You cannot create multi measure rests. the 4 empty measures in teh screenshot cannot be collapsed.
3) If you don't like that the 2 numbers of time signature are too close together then you have to add them manually into the staff. Be aware that they may move if you make changes to the score.
In reply to I second this request… by freiversuch
There is an easier way. Choose 3/4 as the time signature. When you encounter a 4/4 measures press 5 ctrl+shift+a (or any other note name) and a quarter note A will be inserted where you press that (you can press any key from a - g if you need one of these notes), you can then edit the note length in may ways. Q halves the note length, W doubles it, shift + Q makes it one note shorter with a dot, shift + W adds a dot. You could actually add several shorter notes using chtrl+shift+notename if this makes more sense in your situation. I think this is easier since you don't have to open measure properties, it's all done with the keyboard. One disadvantage is that you cannot insert a rest, but you can insert the note any where in the measure if it starts with a rest.
In reply to There is an easier way… by mike320
That's great stuff. Thanks for your great comment!
I just really wish alternating time signatures will make their way into Musescore some day. 😁
They are not that uncommon.
In reply to That's great stuff. Thanks… by freiversuch
They are becoming more common. Perhaps a day will come when MuseScore will directly support this.
The entire variety of world music is written in compound meter. Just take Czech "furiant" dance, beloved by both Dvorak, Smetana and Brahms. Just take Balkan music, Middle East, North Africa, Bernstein's West Side Story, Dave Brubeck, you name it. You'll find it everywhere and it's there for centuries. Any decent notation software should support it out of the box and not by using tricks and hacks
In reply to The entire variety of world… by cincplug
Compound meters (e.g. 6/8) are possible in MuseScore ever since. This is entirely different from alternating meters (which are possible too, but rather cumbersome)
In reply to The entire variety of world… by cincplug
To clarify, by this I mean the ability to set the overall time signature as compound one. Like there already is an option to set the time signature to for example 7/8 or 9/8. What is missing in MuseScore is the ability to write 9/8 as for example 2/8 + 2/8 + 2/8 + 3/8, which should be there as an option because 9/8 by default reads as 3/8 + 3/8 + 3/8 which completely differently respells as rhythm and conductor would count it differently
In reply to To clarify, by this I mean… by cincplug
See #277279: Lack of Capabilities in the Custom Time Signature Creator
In reply to See #277279: Lack of… by Jojo-Schmitz
OK thanks
In reply to To clarify, by this I mean… by cincplug
But note, you already can write 2+2+2+3/8, or 2+2+2+3/8+8+8+8. The former is actually the more standard way to write this than 2/8 + 2/8 + 2/8 + 3/8 anyhow.
In reply to But note, you already can… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks, well that's how I do, but even then it later respells rhythms as if it were 3+3+3/8. Well, what the hell, I'll respell myself
In reply to Thanks, well that's how I do… by cincplug
All you need to do is change the time signature properties to get it to beam as you like. And you can then add the customized time signature to your palette for easy reuse.
In reply to All you need to do is change… by Marc Sabatella
An old subject, but one that has still never been addressed by MuseScore.
Beaming aside, could it not be possible to designate a time signature that alternates, either in a regular or irregular manner? For example Compound / Simple, or 12/8 / 6/4. The user could decide the beaming, or it could be done automatically.
At the same time, it ought to be possible to change time signatures independently in each staff.
The attached screenshot hopefully explains what I mean, demonstrating both linear and vertical hemiolas, independent time signatures in each staff and alternating simple and compound time signatures in different measures.
In reply to An old subject, but one that… by s c standen
"... it ought to be possible to change time signatures independently in each staff"
It is possible, using a local time signature. See the Handbook:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/time-signatures#local-time-signatur…
However local time signatures impose all sorts of restrictions e.g. subsequent measures must be empty before setting a local TS, you cannot copy and paste in a local TS.
But you can achieve your example (more or less) without using a local time signature, by changing the Appearance section in the Time Signature Properties of the opening time signature. For each subsequent change of time signature you have to insert the new time signature manually and then hide it:
![Alternating_time_signatures.png]( "Alternating_time_signatures.png")
There has been a long debate about how to improve time signature creation, and no significant change will be available in MS 4.0. But the topic is regarded as important for some subsequent release after MS 4.0. See the Issue Tracker for this thread:
#277279: Lack of Capabilities in the Custom Time Signature Creator