Accessibility - Systems too big for a page
When a system is too big to fit on a page the staves at the bottom disappear below the page. There is nothing that tells a blind user that this is the case.
I've been working with hhpmusic to notate his next piece and I told him about his layout issues and he had not way of knowing about them. This is, in my opinion, a major issue for accessibility. I'm looking for some ideas before I turn this into a suggestion in the issue tracker.
Comments
Something like #115146: Automatically adjust staff space to fit instruments on page?
In reply to Something like #115146:… by Jojo-Schmitz
It would be good if musescore would adjust the scaling on a single page to fit a system on a page. If it's not going to do that it needs to tell the blind user that the staff or selected item is off the printed page. The current project has 23 staves (at least on page 1) so I reduced the scaling so it would fit but there are still some pages with staves that can't be seen. Hhpmusic had no way to know this was happening. He entered the score with no idea that I couldn't see the staves either and MuseScore was happy to do it.
In reply to It would be good if… by mike320
Oh.. the woes and difficulties of those sighted people ;)
FWIW, it also happens horizontally - when a measure is too big to fit on a page, the last notes disappear at the right of the page (as reported in https://musescore.org/en/node/305433). I suppose the solution would be different ('breaking' a measure instead of scaling down staff size), and I suspect the latter issue is much less common, but maybe these two issues are somehow related?
In reply to FWIW, it also happens… by Asmatzaile
I'd say the solution is the same in either case: reduce Format > Page Settings > Scaling > Staff space
In reply to I'd say the solution is the… by Jojo-Schmitz
That is the solution I gave to hhpmusic and I'll do that when I look at his score but he doesn't know to do this since he doesn't know it's happening.
In reply to That is the solution I gave… by mike320
Yes, some automatism is needed. Or/and the corresponding feedback
In reply to Yes, some automatism is… by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes. I recall reading somewhere that, before, the app had no way of knowing if something was off the score, but with one of the implementations being made, this is going to be possible and MS will be able to adjust accordingly. For vertical overflow, I agree with you that scaling staff space is the way to go; but I'm not still convinced of that in the case of horizontal overflow.
For example, if a blind user wanted to write unmetered music using the insert mode on a single measure, it would be a better output to have that measure broken in more than one staff than to have a single tiny staff with lots of tiny illegible notes.
In reply to Yes. I recall reading… by Asmatzaile
I do appreciate your comments. I posted here first to get some other ideas so do keep them coming.
As for the automatic splitting of measures, I'm a bit hesitant to allow that for a couple of reasons. First, if the measure is automatically split, then it needs to automatically rejoin if it's no longer needed. This isn't out of the question just like there are automatic and manual system breaks. The other concern is that an automatic split will be at an undesirable spot in the measure. If MuseScore can let the user know the item is not visible, the user can then make a decision on how to fix it.
I can certainly imagine a scheme where staff size is automatically reduced to fit, but that's problematic b because the page size might not actually be reasonable, other. So it might solve this problem but create others. On the other hand, it is a problem that could use a solution. I just think a good one might be more involved.
Meanwhile, a quick solution could be a tool (built in or maybe even plugin) to at least detect and warn you about the problem, perhaps when you print, or export, or just issue the special command.
In reply to I can certainly imagine a… by Marc Sabatella
For an element off of the printed page, there needs to be accessibility feedback through the screen reader so a plugin won't work for this. This feedback is the most important part of this discussion.
As for an automated reduction in the size of print on the page, I'm very much in favor of such a function. I would prefer it only affect a single page like the new spacing algorithm being worked on for 3.6. A reasonable minimum size needs to be established measured in pixels so unreadable dots are never printed on a page. I would suggest a style setting with a hard minimum based on the pixels just mentioned. I do realize that the setting will likely be entered in the form of sp but if the page cannot be sufficiently reduced, a warning box should appear. This would allow the blind user to know that the problem exists. In the case of hhpmusic, he knows he can go to me or a few other MuseScore users for assistance and I would hope the same situation exists for other blind users.
In reply to For an element off of the… by mike320
I envisioned the plugin doing the scan then popping a dialog that says, for instance, "staves 9-11 do not fit on page 3" or whatever.
My concern with the automatic solution is exactly what you say - people creating scores for 40 instruments and trying to squeeze it onto a piece of Letter paper. So while I can still see the function being useful for the cases where things are off by only a little, I'd also want to see a solution for the all-too-common case where people just aren't giving it any thought and are off by a lot.