Guitar Chords not changing
I'm notating a score with guitar chords, which I've not done before. I've downloaded and selected MuseJazz.mss and while most of the chords I've notated appear in that font, some appear in normal text font. When I change out of concert pitch, ( in which I'm notating), only the chords in the MuseJazz font change and the chords in normal text font do not. Chords that are not changing are any with the flat symbol in selected from the text symbols panel and the following: Em7-5 C7+5 Cdim and several others.
I suspect this is because I am not using the correct notation for some chords in this font, so could you please advise where I can find a full list of the accepted chord notations for the font.
Thanks.
Comments
Yes this is the reason. Never use the flat symbol, a b should turn into a flat symbol automagically.
My method is to always enter chords in lower case, if they remain in lower case I know that MuseScore didn't recognize them.
Cdim is to be entered as Co for MuseJazz, I believe Cm7+5 is Cm7#5 and Em7-5 is Em7b5 ?
To get a full list, check Menu -> Plugins -> Lead Sheat -> Create Chord Chart. You may also give my improved version a try
In reply to Yes this is the reason. To by Jojo-Schmitz
Excellent, thanks and a great tip to enter in lower case too. That has worked for all the chords in the piece except these.......... Gm7(sus7) Gm7(sus C) or any in that similar format and they don't appear in the full list either. Could you help me on this one please.
Thanks
In reply to Excellent, thanks and a great by Peter B
Wouldn't Gm7(sus 7) simply be Gm7? Or a Gdim7?
In reply to Wouldn't Gm7(sus 7) simply be by Jojo-Schmitz
Theoretically Gm7(sus 7) is an impossibilty.
You can't have a 7th chord and then also suspend the 7th of the scale as well.
I suspect what is meant here is simply Gm7sus - which is a Gm7 chord with the 4th (C) added.
Yes I know it doesn't say sus 4 - in jazz circles the 4 is implied.
Similarly Gm7 (sus C) is technically incorrect - suspensions are conventionally denoted by scale degree, not letter name.
In this case too the chord would normally be written just as Gm7sus
HTH
Michael
In reply to Theoretically Gm7(sus 7) is by ChurchOrganist
My internet went down for a couple of hours - just heard the exchange is flooded !!
My fault completely - I didn't work out the chord properly. The original notes from the piano score are G, Bb, C, D, F which is Gm7 with suspended 4th. Even so, and back to my original post, I can't get my notation to accept either 'Gmi7sus4' or 'Gmi7susC'.
In reply to My internet went down for a by Peter B
That is because, as I said, current jazz convention interprets Gm7sus as with sus 4 implied.
It is possible to force the parser to display the chord as Gm7sus4 but you have to alter the config file.
You may find this discussion relevant
http://musescore.org/en/node/18295
In reply to That is because, as I said, by ChurchOrganist
OK thanks, I did understand what you said about the 4th being implied, but it won't accept 'Gmi7sus' either which I tried after you had mentioned it. I've just noticed that there are no minor suspended chords in the full list, which probably explains why it won't accept them. It's easy to work round. When I transpose out of concert pitch I'll just change it manually, but it's odd that they are not on the list. Thanks for the link - useful.
In reply to OK thanks, I did understand by Peter B
Read the Handbook section on Chord name and pay attention to the part showing you the different options available for chord names styles. Coose the one that comes closest to the style you want, then run the chord chart plugin to see how it expects chords to be entered.
In reply to Read the Handbook section on by Marc Sabatella
Thanks Mark, I went there and to several other posts on the subject before I started this project, and they all helped me get started with my chord notation. I posted only when I got stuck with a couple of chords which didn't register. They're all sorted now except for minor suspended chords of which I have two in the score: G, Bb, C, D, F = Gm7sus4 and C, Eb, F, G, Bb = Cm7sus4. None of the chord styles available include any minor suspended chords, so they can't be entered in an accepted format, only as text it seems.
In reply to Thanks Mark, I went there and by Peter B
C, Eb, G, Bb, F is Cm7add11
Don't want to drag this on, I'm quite happy to correct the transposition in straight text and I'm very grateful for all the help, as always, but enlighten me please what's the difference between sus4 and +11, just the octave?
In reply to Don't want to drag this on, by Peter B
exactly
Well, maybe not quite, sus(4) would replace a note (the minor 3rd?), +11 adds the F
Your Cm7sus4 would be C, F, G, Bb, I think?
In reply to exactly by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes. A suspension is a temporary pause on the way to somewhere immediate. A minor 7 chord has the natural 4th as a non-chord scale note, so there is no reason to notate a suspension. Nothing is suspended.
To put it another way, a suspension requires resolution. The 4th (11th) has no where to resolve, it is already resolved. If you want the 11th to be a part of the chord played using that symbol, notate it as the 11th.
In reply to exactly by Jojo-Schmitz
Um, don't think so Jojo. A minor 7th contains a flattened 3rd interval and a flattened 7th interval. The suspended 4th doesn't replace anything, it's an added 4th interval in the the triad - root, flat3rd, flat 7th. So Cm7sus4 = C root, Eb flat 3rd, F 4th, Bb flat 7th. I'm not sure about the Cm7+11, but I suppose it's C, Eb, Bb, F. This stretches my schoolboy Grade 5 theory somewhat, but I usually get there in the end !!
In reply to Don't want to drag this on, by Peter B
The reason I suggested reading the Handboom is that it seemed you were beng inconsistent about how you abbreovtaed "minor", leading me to assume you weren't aware that MuseScore gives you optipns but you have to be consistent.
As for sus4 cersus 11, octave is irrelevant. The "sus" notation (short for "suspended") indicates that one note in the chord *replaces* another, as opposed to being added. Sus4 suggests a 4th replaces a third. So a chord can't really be monor and sus4 at the same time - if it has no third, it can't be minor. The most straightofrward name for the chord woild simply be mi11. True, that technically implies a ninth whereas your voicing doesn't, but there is absolutely zero differene i practice. There is hardly a pianist alive who would insist on adding a ninth to mi11 chords while refusing to play one on a chord noted add11 or sus4. Chord symbols are just rough guides to the intended sound - if you need a *specific* combination of notes played, you need to write them out rather than try to trick a player into playing them by some clever chord symbol.
In reply to The reason I suggested by Marc Sabatella
Lost my internet again last night so couldn't respond.
Thanks for that Mark, as always when I post here I learn something. I'm simply trying to take some scores I have for piano and voice and arrange them for guitar and soprano saxophone. I've set it as a little project for my self (saxophone) and a good friend who is an amateur but very accomplished jazz guitarist. At the end of the day, my friend will almost certainly take my notation of the piano part in terms of guitar chords as a guide only, and will use the chords that she thinks work best despite the chords that I've derived.
As a matter of interest, and at the risk of going way off topic.....the piano/voice scores are obviously in concert pitch and I'm arranging them in concert pitch, but the soprano saxophone is a transposing instrument pitched in Bb. So what I need to do when I've finished is leave the guitar chords in concert pitch, but transpose the notes and key signature up a major 2nd. For instance the score I'm working on at the moment is in concert F major, the first note of the piece is a concert C natural and the first guitar chord is F+. So I need the sop sax to be in the key of G major playng a D natural first note, but the guitar still playing the F+ chord. Is there a simple way to do that in MS?
Thanks anyway for the help and advice - much appreciated.
In reply to Lost my internet again last by Peter B
Assuming you enter the chirds onto the guitar staff rather than the soprano staff, this should happen automatically. Or, if you don't feel like having a two-staff score that you would then extract parts from, just enter everything - notes and chords - at concert ptich, then print for guitar, then turn off concert pitch, and print again for sax. That way both parts will have notes and chords in the correct key.
And FWIW, given your description of what you are trying to accomplish and who the players are, I'd be inclined to notate the chord you asked about as simple Gmi7 and let the guitar player decide for himself how to color it (eg, what tones to add). That's how a professional fake book editor (like me :-) would do it. Or Gmi11 if you are absolutely convinced the C is harmonically necessary and not just a passing tone or other non-essential tone. Posting the original excerpt might help me see.