How I do I become a professional engraver?

• Apr 17, 2016 - 16:23

Hi guys.

I've been quite a long time user of Musescore. I've always recommended it other people in work. I think it provides more than enough for most peoples needs.

However, how can you move into the professional world of music engraving, because the websites I encounter all advertise that they use Finale (about 70%) or Sibelius (30%). I know the latter may be due to the discontinuation of Sibelius since Steinberg has taken over. Some still advertise that they also engrave using Score. Any advertisement on 'upwork' or 'Peopleperhour' require the Finale files alongside a PDF document. I am aware that you can download 'Finale Notepad' - so I should be able to engrave in Musescore, and then export as a XML file, and save in Finale Notepad. However, i am not too sure how successful this method would be, considering it would have to take into account the amount of staves/instruments etc.

I have also thought about Lilypond. It is usable, and does produce excellent scores (just like the new versions of Musescore)

Any thoughts

Comments

• Apr 17, 2016 - 21:23

Realistically, exporting as MusicXML and importing into Finale (Notepad or otherwise) is going to lose enough information - formatting, mostly - that the results would still require hand-editing. So if someone actually requires *Finale* files, they probably wouldn't be happy with the results. On the other hand, they might be asking for that simply because they don't know there is an alternative. Worth asking.

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• Apr 19, 2016 - 08:39

Thanks for your reply. Sorry I couldn't respond sooner, I had problems with my PC.
I did wonder about the MusicXML export and Finale/Sibelius import. Incidentally, I did read on a Sibelius blog, that one method of producing excellent results would be to use Musescore as your main software for inputting all the data, remove any formatting, export as a MusicXML file, and then import into Lillypond (proably using Frescobaldi.) I have tried this before, and it was quite successful. (I made the mistake of not removing the formatting at that time!)
You may be correct about the request for 'Finale' files. If it is the 'industry standard' then they assume this is what is required.
I have also seen some very low rates of pay for engraving work on these websltes ie. $10 for someone requiring a transcription as well as engraving.

Anyway, if mot of the Publishing companies require engraving to be undertaken in Finale - with the end result producing a PDF and Finale files, then how does the someone like myself become a professional engraver? I suppose the simple answer is to purchase Finale, (or Sibelius) ir go and learn SCORE. I suppose the only other way would be to become independent.

PS. I hope I haven't made any spelling mistakes, I do have some eyesight issues.

Any more thoughts?

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• Apr 19, 2016 - 12:50

Most major publishers do their own engraving, so they can get a consistent look and feel. What the composer gives them is just a rough draft they end up re-entering into Score or whatever software they use. So the only way to be a professional engraver for a major publisher is to actually get hired by them, and then indeed, you'd need to use whatever they use.

Some smaller publishers might take PDF's as submissions, but then they won't care if it came from Finale, Sibelius, MuseScore, LilyPond, or some other program. So if there are compopsers out there who are needing their scores engraved for submission to one of thsoe publishers, MuseScore should be fine.

I've never seen a publisher that says they only accept Finale or Sibelius files. Not saying it doesn't exist, but in my experience, it's not the norm. Either they do their own engraving so they don't care what you send them, or they take PDF. And certainly, for composers interested in self-publishing, any program should be fine. Some of them might *think* it has to be Finale or Sibelius because that's what they've heard of, but this could be an opportunity to educate them.

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• Apr 20, 2016 - 21:56

Many thanks for the link. I have a feeling that I've come across this website before, from another music forum.

Start off small as they say. See what work I can find as an independent engraver, and go from there.

Again, many thanks for the advice. The software is very good. :)

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• Apr 22, 2016 - 16:16

@Thomas: You are correct, and here's another publisher using MuseScore (exclusively): www.promusicaspiritus.com.

I think the number of publishers using MuseScore as their primary scorewriter will continue to grow because the new generation of music publishing companies comprises mostly small firms doing P-O-D, which the older, established houses do not do (or at least, not yet...).

For small firms that may be run by one or two people without the deep pockets of a Barenreiter, Peters or Schott, the cost of Sibelius or Finale can be a relatively big deal. Since MuseScore is fully capable of producing a finished score as good as anything the 'high-priced spread' can produce, there is no need for these small publishers to shell out for those expensive programs, and many of them are coming to realise that.

As to the OP's original question, I think Marc and a few others have answered it fairly well. To become a professional engraver, there are two primary routes: Either he will need to apply for a job working for a publisher, and work according to that publisher's house style, or he will need to set up his own publishing firm. The problem with the second option is that just knowing how to run the software doesn't make one a designer; unless he has a background in graphic arts, it will take years for him to learn on his own to produce editions that meet professional standards. But it can be done. ;o)

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• Apr 21, 2016 - 00:26

You might want to create a portfolio for yourself by engraving some out-of-copyright pieces from IMSLP and putting them on your own website. You might even be able to make a little bit of money by including a link to a PayPal or a Flattr account where people can send you money as a thank-you for taking the time to transcribe the music and making it freely available.

Once you have a few good examples online, you could use crowdfunding to raise money to transcribe a larger piece (maybe an opera) for which there are no modern versions available, like MuseScore did with the Goldberg Variations. You would get the most donations if you promised to release the scores into the public domain as MuseScore files as well as PDF files so that people can actually listen to them. You would make money from the donations and by selling physical copies of the scores that have been printed and bound.

Once you have made a name for yourself as an engraver you can offer to engrave pieces for a fee, and consider different licencing options.

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• Apr 21, 2016 - 02:19

It's something I've considered myself. I've also been considering starting an "open source" type effort to make MSCZ files available of famous classical works. It might be something that MuseScore itself could considering sponsoring (paid for by crowdfunding campaigns), since it would undoubtedly generate huge interest in MuseScore and MuseScore.com. Content is key to the success of any platform.

However, timing is key. MuseScore is improving all the time - and the MSCZ format keeps changing - so we wouldn't want to keep going back to update files to work with the latest version. Also, this kind of thing would really benefit from Google Drive type collaboration which MuseScore isn't likely to have any time soon, but there are other ways (e.g. Dropbox or GitHub).

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• Apr 21, 2016 - 15:16

FWIW, the dream of an open source repository of classic works in MSCZ format (also MusicXML) is one I share, and I know others have been thinking along these lines too. I've been in preliminary discussions with a few folks about what would be involved in doing this well. At some level of course, musescore.com already provides this, but there are no quality controls, and in cases where people just copied existing copyrighted editions including editorial marks, there are potential copyright issues. These issues to me are probably more important than the technical issues of sharing - I tend to think a really good edition of any work really should have a single person working on to ensure consistency anyhow.

But indeed, given the pretty major changes in store for MuseScore 3.0, there probably is no hurry in getting started on a project like this. Something to keep in the back of one's mind.

Meanwhile, back to the original topic, I do agree with the suggestion of building a portfolio to showcase your engraving skills and address any reservations people might have over your choice of software.

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• Apr 22, 2016 - 08:43

Thanks for your comments and ideas. The copyright issues of the publisher with the IMSLP scores is something I am concerned about. what are the copyright laws? Are they the same as the laws for composers?
At the moment, I am in the middle of engraving some Chopin and Beethoven piano scores, copying every detail of the original edition, just to see what is possible. So far, so good.

Thank you all fr your advice. I'll be back soon

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• Apr 22, 2016 - 10:58

See http://imslp.org/wiki/Public_domain. Obviously we can't offer specific legal advice, but the general rules are clear enough.

You correctly identify that issue tends to be with the publisher's typographical copyright rather than the composer's musical copyright, at least for older works. Photocopying a modern edition of an old work is a definite no-no because you copy the publishers layout and formatting, but copying the actual notes and symbols "by hand" is not necessarily illegal since the music itself is public domain. However, its best avoided because problems arise when there have been editorial changes or corrections of some kind, and if there has been any kind of arranging (e.g. a reduction from orchestral to piano score) then it counts as a new work and is fully protected under copyright law.

Luckily, everything on IMSLP is out of copyright, both in terms of the typographical copyright (publisher) and the musical copyright (composer), but only in Canada (where its servers are located). Most things on IMSLP are out of copyright everywhere, but not all, and there is a small risk that any given file might have slipped through the net. My understanding is that the work needs to be out of copyright in your own country, and also in the country where the servers are that host any scores you upload. However, if you were to accidentally upload something that was still in copyright then the chances are that you would simply be asked to take it down - there probably wouldn't be legal action taken unless you refused or persisted in deliberately uploading infringing content.

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• Apr 23, 2016 - 10:11

Thanks for the link. Yes, the Brahms will certainly be a challenge. At the moment, I'm working on a Chopin Nocturn, using an edited version designed for instruction/tutoring. I wanted to see how accurately I could reproduce all of the information fingerings, articulations, stem configurations, etc. How I could accurately reproduce the original score.
I have also reproduced some popular music scores, in the same way - obviously for research purposes, and not distribution (copyright laws etc.)
Once again, thanks for the advice :)

PS. I do agree that more music professionals should use it . The software has come on in leaps and bounds

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