Vanishing beats

• Sep 13, 2016 - 08:43

I am working on some revisions on an almost-completed piece for brass quintet and vocal -- so I have the full score plus six individual parts. If I attempt to substitute a quarter note for a quarter rest in the full score, then a beat simply vanishes from that spot in the individual part -- leaving me with only two beats in a 3/4 bar. If, instead, I insert the quarter note in the individual part, then a beat vanishes from that spot in the full score.

I attach my full score. Most recently, I have attempted to add two quarter notes to the first two bars of the trombone part in the score (including the pick-up) -- so those beats have vanished from the individual trombone part.

I am using Portable Musescore, version 2.0.3, revision 3c7a69d, primarily on a 64-bit Windows 10 machine, though also on a 64-bit Windows 7 machine.

Attachment Size
In My Merry Oldsmobile.mscz 61.22 KB


Your score is corrupted in a critical way
(at least in an underlying way since the opening works without warning)

Just eg remove parts, or changing time signature cause a crash. And there are many other bad things. Eg remove (Del) the content of a measure in the main score causes a corruption (empty measure) in the corresponding part, and vice versa.

In the possibility of your memories, can you describe the process of creation of this score, the more precisely? You started by what? Then, do what, etc. ? And so on, step by step.

And any other clue - although it may seem trivial for you - may be useful (apparently, the score was created with 2.0.3, right?)

EDIT: other bad thing.
1) Select all, main score (ctrl +A)
2) Del (so, only the content)
3) Undo

Result: very suspect accidentals (see below) in the score (eg in the top staff, but not only). Do you recall of some maneuvers related to the key signatures, transposing instruments , etc.?

In reply to by cadiz1

@Cadiz--Not sure what's going on here, but when I opened the OP's score in 2.0.1, it opened normally and I cannot reproduce any of the bad behaviour you encountered. I deleted all parts, no crash. I created 'all new' parts; no crash. I deleted the contents of a measure; no crash; also, there are no unnecessary accidentals in the trumpet 1 part.

The score seems to be completely 2.0.1, running Win7 Pro.

Attachment Size
In My Merry Oldsmobile 201.mscz 62.01 KB

In reply to by tzathros

A bit of patience. See here:

EDIT: And of course, you can continue to use the score now fixed with 2.0.3. The lesson of all this, probably, is that it is not logical and not recommended at all to create the parts immediately after creating the score.
So create the score, and when the main score is fully entered: generate the parts to that point.

I also see that you checked the ability to Create Multimeasure rests in Style -> General. While it was unticked in your original template. These multimeasure rests were often the source of issues.

I'm not saying that is the case here, but do you recall the moment when you checked this, and for what purpose? And do you remember specific operations regarding this feature?
Finally, about the pickup measure, have you created this measure immediately, or later, with operations of copy-paste/removal, undo-redo, and so on, in the main score or a part, or parts?

In reply to by cadiz1

I do not recall EVER ticking the "create multimeasure rests" while working with this score, and was surprised to see them appear. In other pieces I have done earlier with Musescore, I always believed it was best to wait until the end to create the multimeasure rests.

I believe I created the pick-up bar at the very beginning of the process, before I entered any notes, because this entire piece depends on the melody line, and the pick-up is important to the melody. I believe I highlighted the first bar of the full score, and then edited the measure to only include one beat.

I now understand that in the future, it's probably best to complete the full score before generating the individual parts.

I have not yet "fixed" this score -- my trombone part still is missing beats from the first two bars, and I do not know how to restore them, other than by switching to an earlier version of Musescore.

In reply to by cadiz1

Spectacular! I cannot thank you enough for all your efforts, and I also wish to thank everyone else who has contributed to this discussion. Everything appears to work perfectly now, AND I have learned much about working with the software -- though I obviously have much more to learn!

I have often used Musescore to create individual parts, but this is only my second effort at making a multi-part score. Everything was done with Musescore 2.0.3.

I started by creating a blank template, which I shall attach. Then I modified the title, time signature, and key signature. Then I started putting notes in the full score. After just a few bars, I created some bars with three quarter-rests, and pasted them to the entire piece, so all my bars were already divided into three quarter rests. After that, I spent days/weeks adding more notes. Finally, I added the lyrics -- but they looked cramped on the first trumpet part, so I created a separate "voice" part, and deleted the lyrics from the first trumpet part. I copied all the notes from the first trumpet part, and pasted them into the voice part, and then transposed them.

I did not become aware of any problem until the piece was basically complete, and I was attempting some revisions.

Thank you for your input and help!

Attachment Size
Template for Brass Quintet.mscz 16.35 KB

In reply to by tzathros

Thanks for the attempt of re-creation of this score.

"I created some bars with three quarter-rests, and pasted them to the entire piece"
Why not, but what was the purpose of doing this? Eg, have you deleted some rests in another voice than the Voice1, or other related attempt?

" I copied all the notes from the first trumpet part, and pasted them into the voice part, and then transposed them."
What have you done very precisely to transpose?

And last point you have not mentioned: when exactly did you generate the parts in this entire process? At the beginning, at the end, other moment?

The reason for basically filling the entire score with quarter rests was that I was finding I often had to create an individual quarter rest on beat two, so I could place a note on beat three. (If the empty bars contained a dotted-half rest, rather than three quarter rests, then after placing a quarter note on beat one, I was left with a half rest on beat two, and before I could place a quarter note on beat three, I would have to first convert the half rest into two quarter rests; it seemed to save time to START with all quarter rests.) I do not recall having to delete any rests prior to this process.

To transpose the notes in the vocal part, I highlighted all of the notes -- or perhaps LEFT them highlighted, since they were already highlighted after being copied from the first trumpet part. Then I clicked on "Notes" and "Transpose" and "Transpose Chromatically" and "By interval" and "Major second" down.

I generated the five instrument parts at the very beginning of the process -- in fact, I generated them for the earlier "template" and then used the template to create this piece. The VOICE part, however, was generated near the end of the process.

In reply to by tzathros

"in fact, I generated them for the earlier "template" and then used the template to create this piece."
What do you mean by the "earlier template" ?
("and then used the template to create this piece"). Could you elaborate what you have done: "earlier template" (?) vs. template?

In reply to by cadiz1

Sorry for the confusion -- there's only one "template", which I attached a few messages ago (titled "Template for Brass Quintet"). I created and saved the template FIRST -- perhaps a week before I started work on the current score.

THEN I opened the template, changed the title, time signature, and key signature, and started adding notes to make the current score.

In reply to by tzathros

Normally, one would simply enter notes and rests left to right. So if you want to enter a note on beat one and three with a rest on beat two, simply enter them left to right: eg, "5 C 0 D" a quarter note C, quarter rest, then quarter note D. No need to go to all that extra work of first filling measures with rests - not that this should cause problems either.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thank you for your response. From your message, I can see that I need to learn some keyboard shortcuts.

I have been using the "Note Input toolbar" and it has been somewhat cumbersome to toggle back and forth between entering notes and rests. THAT'S why it seemed quicker and easier to go ahead and fill my empty measures with quarter rests.

In reply to by tzathros

About the key signatures (and for additional infos)
From scratch, with this sort of quintet, we receive this: template.mscz
From what I see on your own template: Template for Brass Quintet.mscz,
you have then changed the key signature for Bb (2 flats), exact?
But in the "final" score, the key signature has changed again, for F (with a flat), right?
Why (why not, of course!) and above all, when have you done that in the process?

In reply to by cadiz1

I did not know there was a template available for brass quintet, so I made my own. I used the most basic -- easiest -- key signature for a brass quintet, "Concert Bb". (I never saw the template you have just referenced, in the key of C.)

The score I have been working on is based largely on a piece of vintage piano music, written in the different key (concert F). So, one of the FIRST things I did when I started working on the new score was to change the key from the Bb in my template to F.

To review -- I first created my own "Template for Brass Quintet" in the key of Bb. Later, when I started working on this score, I changed the key to F to match the vintage piano music I was using.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

After investigation, I'm trying to raise a hare (or two)
I can reproduce one of the problems. From what I understand by now, it concerns the key signature in the parts after the removal of the first measure in main score, with the transposing instruments or not (at least two instruments with two differents key signatures).
I will report this first problem soon.

The second issue, related to the corruption of the Trombone part, is trickier. A priori, always from what I understand by now, it does not seem to be related to the first. This may be the result of improper handling, or a copy paste gone bad, or anacrusis (but not sure)? Anyway, I can not reproduce presently.
But I can locate the moment (February 2016, and so, with the previous versions, 2.0.2, 2.0.1 etc.) where, despite the corruption, it is possible to remove the parts, and so, after their re-creation, the corruption is solved and everything is normal.
And locate the moment (same day, for the nightlies Branch master, different for 2.0.3 branch), when this corruption is “denied” when removing the parts, and so, causing the crash and the inability to fix anything.

For the second problem, I could elaborate later here what I have found. This perhaps could open a gateway to its understanding, or its resolution?

In reply to by cadiz1

Both issues filled: #124941: Key signatures go back to the first instrument showed after removing the first measure in a score with parts
and #124956: Create a pickup measure in parts with two instruments at least leads to corruption and crash
There is still a point that bothers me. Namely, from scratch, despite the corruption, the removal of parts normally operates. However, I can get a crash by a roundabout way when removing these parts. I will deepen later this question.

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