Somewhere i stated that MuseScore does not automatically adjust the last measure when creating an up beat. Thats not the whole truth. The new score wizard does it. So the observed behaviour is intended.
I could see making that an additional check box in the wizard, and I think when transcibing Baroque music, it would come in handy, but for most applications, people would want that turned off.
The up beat check box in the new score wizard is mostly for beginners who do not know how to create this manually. If many simple pieces (for example in christmas song collection) follow the implemented rule then omitting the change of the last measure will not help a beginner.
The original implementation only changed the first measure and i got a lot of complains about this. So i am unsure whats the right thing to do:
- omit up beat option completly
- change only first measure
- change first + last measure
- add an option to choose between 2-3 (how to call this option?)
As I am always wanting more specific control, I would vote for the option to choose.
The only name that comes to me right now is very clumsy, "stolen beats". I am sure there are better names and I will try to improve on this myself. I don't know the answer, but perhaps there is a technical name for this choice??
My first choice would be option 4. The current setting for the up beat would remain as is, but there would be a normally greyed-out checkbox below it. If you set up a pickup meausre, the checkbox would ungrey, and you'd have the option of turning on the option to "also reduce duration of last measure by this amount". You wouldn't need anything but a checkbox there - if left unchecked, you'd get a normal duration measure, but if checked, it would steal the beats. But another way of doing it would be to simply provide two sets of duration controls - one for the first bar, one for the last. Again, the second set could be greyed out unless you actually set up a pickup.
But really, I can't recall anyone ever asking in the forum about how to reduce the length of the last measure. While this is a common convention in some styles (mostly much older styles), there is really nothing lost if you just let the measure be full length even in those styles. Wheeas there are definitely lots and lots of cases where you need the full duration of the last measure. That is,there are no cases where it,s harmful to have the full duration in the last bar,but many cases where it is hamrful to have it truncated. I don't think there are that many people worried about copying the exact look and feel of older manuscripts, although I can certainly imagine this came up allt he time for the Goldberg project!
Sorry, one other thing that is worthy of mention - I woild say that in most of the scores I create, I have not counted the number of bars before I begin (and often The piece is not completed enough in my head for this to even be possible). So even in the rare situations where I might want to honor the older convention of writing an incomplete final bar, it's going to be that much more rare that I would want this done at score creation time, since I am most likely going to be adding measures later anyhow.
I assume you mean adding measures through appending (Ctrl-B, Shift-Ctrl-B). Inserting would not generally cause a problem, but appending measures to a score that has an irregular measure on the end would have an unexpected and adverse affect. V2 trunk certainly leaves the irregular measure behind and appends the measures, leaving it trapped inside the score.
While I was taught this pickup rule, I have no problem doing away with it as I don't use it much either. The user can always manually create a final irregular measure for those rare occasions that its needed. I was quite surprised to see that V2 did follow this rule, while 1.0 didn't. I haven't seen a lot of people clamoring _for_ it.
Comments
Somewhere i stated that MuseScore does not automatically adjust the last measure when creating an up beat. Thats not the whole truth. The new score wizard does it. So the observed behaviour is intended.
So you're saying the actual result is correct?
yes
I don't agree with the actual result - a few others didn't either :).
I could see making that an additional check box in the wizard, and I think when transcibing Baroque music, it would come in handy, but for most applications, people would want that turned off.
The up beat check box in the new score wizard is mostly for beginners who do not know how to create this manually. If many simple pieces (for example in christmas song collection) follow the implemented rule then omitting the change of the last measure will not help a beginner.
The original implementation only changed the first measure and i got a lot of complains about this. So i am unsure whats the right thing to do:
- omit up beat option completly
- change only first measure
- change first + last measure
- add an option to choose between 2-3 (how to call this option?)
any opinion?
As I am always wanting more specific control, I would vote for the option to choose.
The only name that comes to me right now is very clumsy, "stolen beats". I am sure there are better names and I will try to improve on this myself. I don't know the answer, but perhaps there is a technical name for this choice??
Regards,.
My first choice would be option 4. The current setting for the up beat would remain as is, but there would be a normally greyed-out checkbox below it. If you set up a pickup meausre, the checkbox would ungrey, and you'd have the option of turning on the option to "also reduce duration of last measure by this amount". You wouldn't need anything but a checkbox there - if left unchecked, you'd get a normal duration measure, but if checked, it would steal the beats. But another way of doing it would be to simply provide two sets of duration controls - one for the first bar, one for the last. Again, the second set could be greyed out unless you actually set up a pickup.
But really, I can't recall anyone ever asking in the forum about how to reduce the length of the last measure. While this is a common convention in some styles (mostly much older styles), there is really nothing lost if you just let the measure be full length even in those styles. Wheeas there are definitely lots and lots of cases where you need the full duration of the last measure. That is,there are no cases where it,s harmful to have the full duration in the last bar,but many cases where it is hamrful to have it truncated. I don't think there are that many people worried about copying the exact look and feel of older manuscripts, although I can certainly imagine this came up allt he time for the Goldberg project!
Sorry, one other thing that is worthy of mention - I woild say that in most of the scores I create, I have not counted the number of bars before I begin (and often The piece is not completed enough in my head for this to even be possible). So even in the rare situations where I might want to honor the older convention of writing an incomplete final bar, it's going to be that much more rare that I would want this done at score creation time, since I am most likely going to be adding measures later anyhow.
I assume you mean adding measures through appending (Ctrl-B, Shift-Ctrl-B). Inserting would not generally cause a problem, but appending measures to a score that has an irregular measure on the end would have an unexpected and adverse affect. V2 trunk certainly leaves the irregular measure behind and appends the measures, leaving it trapped inside the score.
While I was taught this pickup rule, I have no problem doing away with it as I don't use it much either. The user can always manually create a final irregular measure for those rare occasions that its needed. I was quite surprised to see that V2 did follow this rule, while 1.0 didn't. I haven't seen a lot of people clamoring _for_ it.
I mark this task as a duplicate of #17584: Option for last bar to automatically adjust duration to account for pickup. For what is worth, the previous behavior has been reinstatiated. Choosing a pickup measure will not change the last measure. More discussion in the main bug report.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.