Coutesy accidentals
Is there any support for generating automatically courtesy accidentals? Specifically I am looking for ways to:
1) generate a courtesy accidental in parenthesis when a tie wraps to a new line? If the tie is altered by an accidental then I want to see (#) etch preceding the tie continuation. That seems to be automatic in Sibelius. Does musescore have equivalent support?
2) insert automatically courtesy accidental following an alteration that preceded the current note by a specified number of bars (usually 4). Again I've seen support for this in other music setting software. Finale has it, I assume Sibelius is the same.
Maybe there are plugins that achieve these effects?
Obviously these can be achieved manually but they are time-consuming to do, particularly the tie continuation accidental as that required different approaches between score and parts and necessitates making invisible those accidentals added to the score from the parts and vice versa.
Richard
Comments
See: https://musescore.org/en/node/185141
In reply to See: by Shoichi
Thanks for the suggestion. That doesn't quite do what I want but I may be able to adapt it.
Richard
I have not tried the plug in Shoichi pointed to, but I'm sure it will not add any courtesy accidental for continued ties in version 2.0.3 because you cannot add them at all in 2.0.3, 2.1 has the ability for the user to add accidentals on continued ties, but you would have to pick me up off the ground if the plugin put them in without it being revised.
In reply to I have not tried the plug in by mike320
maybe that's why it doesn't appear to do quite what I want. As you say continued ties don't work. A simple test shows cautionary cancellation of accidentals are added but only to the bar following. It doesn't skip rest bars. Also the configure plugin doesn't appear in the plugin menu. Maybe these are all symptoms needing update for current releases of musescore.
Richard
In reply to maybe that's why it doesn't by richardm999
I didn't mention that 2.1 is the version that will be released in a few days. 2.0.3 is still the current version. The ties will work manually for the user.
The person who said the plugin worked as he expected is one of the developers and I trust what he said. Of course, it has not been updated for 2.1 and it's up to a volunteer to update the plugin to make it take advantage of the new 2.1 features, including the ability to add parentheses by clicking a check box rather than adding them from a palette.
You have to download the plugin it is not automatically included with MuseScore as some are.
In reply to I didn't mention that 2.1 is by mike320
That volunteer probably has to be heuchi , the author of that plugin;-)
In reply to maybe that's why it doesn't by richardm999
You need to enable the "configure" plugin in order for it to show. Once you do, it does show, and it allows you to choose how many measures ahead want to use courtesy accidentals. But indeed, it doesn't seem to have any effect work for me - none of the settings do. Not sure what is up with that.
In reply to You need to enable the by Marc Sabatella
If you mean check the congure plugin from the pluin manager dialog then I've done that. It still doesn't show up in the list.
Richard
In reply to If you mean check the congure by richardm999
Have you tried restarting MuseScore? can't think of any reason that shouldn't have worked.
In reply to Have you tried restarting by Marc Sabatella
yes I have, makes no difference. The add and remove plugins appear but config doesn't. I guess there must be an incompatibility with musescore 2.0.3 or the ubuntu environment I'm using.
In reply to yes I have, makes no by richardm999
I suppose this could also be related to why it doesn't actually seem to work for me - I can run the plugin, but it has no effect. Maybe there is some incompatibility in the plugin that prevent it from working correctly on Windows but the same problem prevents it from even loading on Linux?
I'm beginning to understand why the configure plugin isn't working. It seems that the versions of various elements of QT that come with Ubuntu Trusty aren't compatible with the source as it stands. I'm new to QT programming so I'd appreciate some guidance here:
Using the plugin creator against the configure plugin I got messages saying various import statements failed because the requested version of something or other wasn't installed. I managed by trial and error to get rid of most of the errors, but can't get import qt.labs.settings to work.
I do have a version installed: qml-module-qt-labs-settings 5.3.0-3ubuntu13-trusty1
what should I have as the version number on the import statement. 5.3 doesn't work, so I'm not sure what the version number is referring to.
Richard
In reply to I'm beginning to understand by richardm999
MueScore 2.x requires Qt 5.4, the master branch 5.8
In reply to MueScore 2.x requires Qt 5.4, by Jojo-Schmitz
OK, thanks for that. I'm about to update to Xenial, so QT 5.4 should be already in the repos.
Richard
In reply to I'm beginning to understand by richardm999
Well, the problem with the configure plugin exists for me on Windows too, and there shouldn't be any Qt conflict here, so I doubt that's the whole story. I'd guess somehow it is storing the settings somewhere different from where they get read from, or maybe some sort of of "sandboxing" is going on to protect the system from certain changes.
In reply to Well, the problem with the by Marc Sabatella
I got the plugin working on any older version of musescore, but it doesn't have what I desperately need. When a tie with an accidental is split across two lines it is often the practice to begin the new line with a courtesy accidental in parenthesis, rather as
cresc. ....
would continue on a new line with
(cresc.) ....
Having support for this in the base product would be a great help.
Richard
In reply to I got the plugin working on by richardm999
Until 2.1, it didn't work to add courtesy accidentals on tied-to notes. Not even manually. As of 2.1, this is finally possible. So in principle it should be possible to update the plugin to detect this case and add them. It's not ideal, because if the layout changes the location of line breaks, you'll need to redo it.
For 3.0 I'd really like to see a native solution. This also would make a decent first project for someone interested in MuseScore development, although there would need to be more discussion first in the forums to flesh out how the feature should look to the user. Merely incorporating the existing plugin functionality into the main code as a new command under the Tools is simple enough, but better would be a more automatic solution so you didn't have to re-run the tool every time you made changes to the score.
In reply to Until 2.1, it didn't work to by Marc Sabatella
I agree with with your ultimate aim, it is worth doing it as an integrated capability. I have been adding these things manually, which is fiddly as I have to hide the insertions from the score when adding to parts and vice versa.
Richard
In reply to I agree with with your by richardm999
What do you mean by that? Don't you want the same courtesy accidentals in score & parts?
But FWIW, the plugin *does* work in 2.1, I use it often. There is an issue though with the configuration dialog, that doesn't seem to work. Luckily the defaults are good for me as a starting point.
In reply to What do you mean by that? by Marc Sabatella
I might be using the wrong terminology here. In general yes I do want courtesy accidentals to agree between score and parts. But in the specific case of a tie being continued on a new you are unlikely to get the end of line in a part co-inciding with end of line in the score. Each part and score has to be handled separately - manually adding (#) etc at the beginning of the continued tie modified by an accidental as you do when
cresc. - - - - - - - -
is broken by a new line.
This is a different form of courtesy accidental. You might call it a continuation accidental to differentiate it from regular courtesy accidentals.
I can see I'm going to have to provide an example. But not before I've had some sleep.
In reply to I might be using the wrong by richardm999
No, I get it now. You aren't talking about hiding all courtesy accidentals, just the ones added for this specific reason.
In reply to No, I get it now. You aren't by Marc Sabatella
Yes, and specifically I'm talking about what Gould discusses on p. 80 Accidentals tied over a barline - over a system break. My personal preference is the form in parentheses. Whether or no one uses the parentheses, the problem remains that score and each part will need to be treated differently.