Mixer Reverb and Chorus have no effect on sound

• Sep 13, 2013 - 05:39
Reported version
3.2
Type
Functional
Frequency
Many
Severity
S4 - Minor
Reproducibility
Always
Status
active
Regression
No
Workaround
No
Project
Tags

Steps to reproduce:
1. Play a score in MuseScore
2. View > Mixer
3. Move the Rev and Cho dials up or down

Expected behavior: The dials should affect the sound (or be removed from the user interface).

Actual behavior: The dials have no effect on sound.

Discussion: Sound effects are now controlled from View > Synthesizer > Master Effects. Were the individual instrument dials actually desirable? In previous versions of MuseScore each instrument ended up running through reverb and chorus twice (once for each instrument track and then again for the master synthesizer settings). Running the reverb twice reduces the realism (with a "room within a room" effect) and if the SoundFont samples have any reverb, it means a total of three passes through reverb. The chorus effect is specifically not wanted for solo instruments, and General MIDI already has specific program numbers for group ensemble sounds. If the per track controls are reimplemented they should be set to zero when creating a new score.

GIT commit: 2eeb3de


Comments

"Actual behavior: The dials have no effect on sound."
This behaviour is only with internal sequencer.
Changing reverb and chorus affects external sequencer connected via JACK.
Commit 7ccbeb1.

p.s.
We do not send Master Effects settings to JACK now, so mixer is the only chance to add some reverb or chorus.

Speaking from a MIDI programmer's point of view, I would not expect to send effect settings from a source, but rather set them at Track or Master level in the sequencer itself.

This is because not all MIDI devices have effects built in, and it is better to set effects on the effects devices themselves, or if capable of modification by continuous controller by means of a dedicated track on the sequencer.

Bumping - I've seen several reports of this lately. Is our official story that these controls are meant only for external synthesizers, so we should simply document that these controls have no effect on the internal synthesizer? Or is this a bug we need to fix?

I propose we remove them completely.

As I implied in my comment in #2 the only reason it makes sense to have them is to control the MuseScore internal synth, and the effects structure is now different in MuseScore.

If a user is using JACK to route MIDI out to a third party sequencer or hardware MIDI expander, VSTi etc then they will be able to control chorus and reverb from the destination, and I would expect to do it this way, rather than from the source - there will be a finer degree of control there any way.

If we do this, however, then we will need to educate existing users on the whys and wherefores of this.

I get why it might not make sense for external synths. i don't get why it doesn't for the internal synth. Yes, there is also the global control, but most physical mixers would have both global and per-channel controls. The per-channel controls would probably be "send" controls; the global would have either separate send and receive controls or, I guess, a dry/wet mix control although I think of that as being more for inline applications. And I guess maybe that's the issue - the effects currently work on the full mix rather than on a separate effects bus that is mixed back in?

The current implementation is incomplete. Channel effects are not implemented, only master effects. Chorus is a typical channel effect and therefore also missing.
I dont want to remove chorus/reverb from the midi mixer as they are functional, modifying the appropriate midi controller. Channel effects will be implemented real soon now..

I would really appreciate it if this feature would be implemented. For me it is an important issue so that I now still prefer to continue to use the old version 1.3 (with soundfont FluidR3 GM2-2.SF2) in which each track can have its own reverb setting. As it is now in MuseScore 2 every track can only get the same amount of reverb (from the global setting in the synthesizer) so that it is therefore not possible to create sound that has that kind of 'space' (some instruments close, others far away). It may not be necessary if there is only one instrument (i.e. piano), and also not so important for orchestral music (because there all instruments are approximately the same distance from the listener), but it is pretty important for contemporary music (pop), it really makes a difference there.

Surely, if you are using MuseScore for writing pop music, you are not trying to use the internal synth to render tracks?

There just isn't the degree of control needed for this kind of music.

You would be better either using JACK to route MuseScore's MIDI stream to 3rd party VSTi's and effects, or using MIDI export to creat an SMF for sequencer software.

As now Musescore 3 is in development - is there a chance that the per track controls for reverb (and chorus) will be reimplemented in the new version ?
This feature is at the very top of my wish list.
The reason is as follows: I really like to work with Musescore because I can work fast and efficient with the program (in contrast to some other DAW software I tried). I also do have the sound fonts to create sound (for all single instruments) as I like it. But the only limiting factor now is that it is still not possible to add reverb per track to the instruments - for instance I need a lot of reverb on the E-Guitar and and the Snare drum and little reverb on all other instruments. It's not possible to do right now with Musescore.
So what could one do? Export every single track as wav file reimport in a program like Audacity, add reverb there individually for every track as needed and then remix it? This is just not efficient, and it just is not the workflow as it should be.

Severity S5 - Suggestion S4 - Minor
Reported version 3.0 3.2
Frequency Many
Regression No
Reproducibility Always
Workaround No

Hi, stumbled across the same impression that the Reverb and Chorus would work real time with score playback.

I can see them like candy, but sadly no effect. Any chance of making these control active?

I am making backing tracks and at the moment can only turn down the volume on the lead instrument so it it barely audible.

It would be great to add a little reverb so it sounds like me playing along with a soft live echo : )

Musescore version 3.2.3.7635