High Weirdness on MS.com in relation to MS.org
Hi Everyone, Today I uploaded a score from MS.org--Opera The Anasazi Continuation of Act I. Full Score pg. 21-50 to MS.com . I checked the upload, and it played and looked OK. But later I went back, and much to my surprise, (and chagrin) the score had been shrunk by MS.com from 30 pages total to 48! (It is a continuation of a previous upload from Act I.) The end occurs on pg 48 instead of on pg 50, and several places throughut the score, slurs and ties have been stretched out dangling into empty measures, etc. A mess! However, the playback is OK, it does read the slurs, ties etc. As a paying Pro member, I am not happy about this, as it would be embarassing to have a professional I may send the link to (Such as an Opera production company) see this. I spend endless hours on MS.org making sure that every detail is as accurate and correct as I can possibly get it, and then this stuff happens. Does anyone know why or what to do? Thank You, Del thuban2@gmail.com
Comments
In general, there is a high degree of reliability in terms of a score having the same layout across systems - I think the engine for musescore.com might be Linux? But every once in a while it seems to just so happen that a measure is just barely on the edge of either fitting on a system or not, so just differences in round-off or whatever will cause things to lay out differently.
Luckily it's pretty easy to prevent this. Just put in manual system breaks everywhere in your score (a pain for a 50 page score, I admit), then select and and reduce stretch one noth. This should lock in the current layout pretty well. I do this routinely on all my scores, but I don't write 50-pagers very often. I suspect it would be possible to write a plugin to automate this...
In reply to In general, there is a high by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for Your Comment, Marc Sabatella. Hopefully I will understand what you're talking about--On each and every page of the score, I should put in manual system breaks on the last measure of each page, on the right hand side, etc.? I have never even read the manual about breaks and spacers, so did so this morning,. Will try to make this work/figure it out, and re-upload my score to MS.com. Re :50 page scores, who would want to write such long scores! So much labor-- But I'm faced with doing that and more if I want my opera to be ready to go! Of course, a lot of the pages have many empty staves on entire otchestral sections that go in and out of being used except for full tuttis. It's a good thing I have unlimited space, as the final score may run to 300 pages or more. On MS, there is no way to have more than one system to a page, and anyway, that would take kplanning about which instruments you needed,m etc.! Del
In reply to Score Formatting by delhud2
Yes, manual line breaks at the end of each system. As I said, it looks like it would possible to write a plugin to automate this, so maybe some motivated person will do so?
After adding the line breaks, which prevents MuseScore from putting *more* measures on a system, be sure to also tighten the music spacing to be sure MuseScore won't later on fit *fewer* measures on a system. It will have no visible effect otherwise since the line breaks are all established. To do this, select all and hit "{". Or, correspondingly, reduce Style / Edit General Style / Measure / Music spacing.
BTW, MuseScore has no restriction against multiple systems per page. It will put as many systems on a page as fit. If you are seeing only one system per page, there must not be room on the page for another. And indeed, for a full opera, I'd be surprised if it were ever otherwise, unless you use the Style / Edit General Style / Hide Empty Staves option to produce a condensed score. While this option does work in some cases, there are a whole slew of caveats and outright bugs.
In reply to Yes, manual line breaks at by Marc Sabatella
I haven't had any trouble with one part later on where there are double choureses, etc. big forces--What I meant one, I notice if you delete instsruments to make room for more stuff, that instrument will BE gdeleted CLEAR BACK TO THE BEGINNING FO THE SCORE!
In reply to systems, etc. by delhud2
Did you remove an instrument from the Create Instruments dialogue??
In which case - what were your expectations??
Removing an instrument from the Create Instruments dialogue will remove it completely from the score.
What would be handy when working on large scores is to be able to temporarily hide groups of instruments.
Unfortunately the only way of doing this at the moment is to use parts creation to create the subset of instruments you want to work with, and then cut and paste any changes back into the main score later.
You can of course check the Hide Empty Staves box on the 1st page in the Edit General Style dialogue, but then all empty staves disappear, including those at the end of the piece :(
In reply to systems, etc. by delhud2
Yes, deleting an instrument deletes the instrument completely. We've mentioned the Hide Empty Staves option a couple of times, but I'm thinking you aren't understanding. This option is designed to do, automatically, exactly what it is I think you are trying to do: create a condensed score where instruments that have only rests for a given system don't display on that system. So if your turn this option on (Style / Edit General Style / Hide Empty Staves", then you immediately get that effect. However, as I think I mentioned, there are caveats and bugs with this - things go haywire if the top staff is ever hidden, since that's where tempo markings, voltas, etc are attached. And you'd have to plant something invisible in the first system for every instrument to make sure the first system is not condensed. These issues will be addressed in the next version, but for now, I find Hide Empty Staves a double-edged sword.
In reply to Yes, deleting an instrument by Marc Sabatella
OK, Thanks for warning me about the empty staves option! I did look up "system" in the Harvard Dictionary of Music, and my edition just says a "group of music staves" or somesuch-- I was beginning to wonder if I really new what a system was, but I did know, thank heaven. I used to save music paper by getting more than 1 "system" meaning from Flutes down to Contrabass on one page of paper score, but that is a chore too in a way, planning ahead etc. So the present version of MS is OK anyway. It would be good if a PLUGIN could be created! (For the page break layout problem 0n MS.com) (I am not sure what a plugin really is?! Thanks, Del
In reply to In general, there is a high by Marc Sabatella
I'm already having trouble--I am putting page breaks at the top right hand corner of each page, but I don't understand what to select for setting one notch(?) less for is it page width? I went on Layout and clicked on less stretch thing but I don't think anything happened? My manual does not give step by step instructions for someone like me who needs them! Anyone, Marc? Thanks Del
In reply to formatting problem by delhud2
Less Stretch reduces the width of the measures.
I am afraid that it is in conflict with line break
_________________________
I hope someone can clarify: Have you set Page Settings to "Custom"? Maybe the problem comes from this?
In reply to formatting problem by delhud2
This is a little hard to explain.
Yes, with lin breaks in place, add less stretch (or reducing style / edit general style / measure / music spacing) will *appear* to have no effect. That's because doing this is telling musescore that it *may* tighten spacing if it can, but it can't, because the line break is keeping it stretched out.
The point, right now, the measures might be only barely fitting on the line, and next time the wind changes, the calculation might come out a little different and that last measure won't fit any more. By reducing stretch / music spacing, you're ensuring it will fit even if the wind changes.
Line breaks are insurance against MuseScore fitting too *many* measure on a line next time. Reducing stretch / music spacing is insurance against it fitting too *few*. But either way, it should have no visible effect on the score.
In reply to This is a little hard to by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for warning about about how hiding empty mesaures could casue a score to go awry! THis week I plan to try re uploding my score from MS.og to MS.com, and I HOPE your suggestions on page breaks, etc. work, or MS.com will beacomre more or less useless in my case, as I want to submit to professionals mainly using MS.com Thanks, Del
In reply to This is a little hard to by Marc Sabatella
What the--! Now I was starting on setting page breaks and less stretch on MS.org to upload it later to MS .com. When I came to page 26 of my score, it had stretched just ONE measure of the score across one whole page! I have been trying to get it unstretched but it won't. What should do? I'm already days behind on this score because of these .problems Del
In reply to stretch on MS.org by delhud2
Post the MuseScore.com link and I'll have a look for you.
Incidentally it threw a wobbler on me today too throwing aa system on to the next page which fitted perfectly on my PC at home. Reducing the system spacing by one sorted that.
In reply to Post the MuseScore.com link by ChurchOrganist
I wish there was a step 1 step 2 step 3 outlined for me. Are you able, Marc Sabatell,a to access my MS.org score, or Thomas, or someone authorized? "delhud2 Anasazi pvscore pg. 4-115 Full score pg. 21 51 D " is the file name. THe latest and worst mmalfunction is MS.org has sliced off 2 beats on pg. 49 leading into pg 50. THe entire ending of the score, which I once had perfectly entered is totally messed up now, with measures and exrta rests appearing out of nowhere. I did use tremolo at one point , 3 between notes (Half notes) a regular string "fingered tremolo, but it worked last week- did not mess up the measure whole rests, etc.. IF SOMEONE AUTHORIZED CAN LOOK AT THIS, PLEASE DO. I have NO idea what to do to repair the ending of my score, I tried everything I could think of including clilcking on the UNDO many times, lessening the beat values of the tremolo notes, etc. Thank You Del Hudson P.S. Also, i tried deleting all the ending so I could just reneter the ending from scratch, but that will NOT work. Whatever the Error in duration of measures is, MS keeps backing up the errors! i cannot reach a point where I can start reentering the score from a clean slate, and to try qnymore would just "Eat Up" more of the score in a backwards motion. i have never seen this before on MS.
In reply to formatting by delhud2
from here:http://musescore.com/user/68195/scores/158698
I had already downloaded your score, that is why I asked how you've set the page
If I change the settings here (Vista/1.3) I get 63 pages.
The measures 183-186 change accordingly.
It seems strange the ties anchorage
(see attached)
In reply to I had already downloaded your score by Shoichi
Thanks for your message. My score on MS.com ends on pg. 47-48. The same score on MS.org that I checked today, changed those pages and is now a mess! It is incomprehensible how something was OK last week on MS.org, and when i opened it this weeks, those pages are a mess. I have aksed for help on this from somebody in authority from Musesore. (I also am on Vista. Del
In reply to I had already downloaded your score by Shoichi
The pages were just set the way I have always had them on MS. Defualt or whateverm, has always worked for me before with other scores. I did not choose any Cusom Setting.
In reply to formatting by delhud2
I checked on MS.com and my ending is intact there on pg. 47-48, though the slurs are "dangling". On MS.org the ending is now lost and I cannot ssee how to renenter it. I don't suppose there is any way to copy and past kthe ending from MS.com to MS.org? Del
In reply to P.S. to previous post by delhud2
Do you want to download the file from MuseScore.com?
In reply to I do not understand: by Shoichi
yeah, I guess i should--did not know you could do that--MS.com is now in better shape thatn my MS.org original--in fact, I'm finding now that since I put page breaks in and less stretch, half the pages in the .org score are sliced off too soon on the right hand side! By the Way, everyone, I did NOT choose any Custom layout or anything originally.
In reply to Post the MuseScore.com link by ChurchOrganist
http://musescore.com/user/68195/scores/158698
I have the same problem and was told it's due to this .
Instead of explicate breaks, maybe there should be internal ones (if there aren't any) for the purposes of other platforms (web, mobile), though I'm not sure if it would work.
What do others think?
In reply to I have the same problem and by chen lung
MESSAGE TO MARC SAABATELLA/ MS ADMINS, ETC.
HeLLO, i DID WHAT YOU SAID on page /line breaks and lessening width on my score on MS.org. Now the ending is mostly lost on pages 49-50, and THE ENTRIE SCORE, CLEAR BACK TO THE BEGINNING IS APPARENTLY RUINED-WEEKS OF WORK. The pages are sliced off on the right hand side, and notes have been squeezed together through out the score, even on the voice parts with lyrics, etc. measure lines inserted where there should not be any, etc..c I have never seen anything like it. Fortunately, the score, though with dangling slurs and ties is still intact at least on MS.com, but unless that can be retrieved for me to work with as a MS.org score????? Del Hudson
In reply to My Entire Score by delhud2
OK, first we need to clear up some terminology so you understand what is actually going on.
MuseScore is the name of the notation program you are using
musescore.org is this web site - a place where you can download the software, read documentation, post to forums, etc. musescore.org is just a web site, though - it is not notation software. Almost every you refer to MS.org, I assume you are actually referirng to the MuseScore notation software that runs on your computer. It is, however possible, to upload scores to musescore.org - as an attachment to a forum post, for instance. So it's possible that sometimes when you refer to something on MS.org, you really do mean a file you've uploaded here. Mostly, though, you really mean, MuseScore itself, not this web site.
musescore.com is a kind-of-separate web site where you can upload scores to share with others. When you upload to this web site, your score is made available for download, and it's the *exact same file*, no changes whatsoever as far as I know. But for bit identical. However, in addition to making your actual score available for download, musescore.com also creates a PDF copy of your score that is also made available for download, and it also displays a "live" animation of your score, so you can press "play" and see the cursor following. Both the PDF and the live animation are generated by a copy of the MuseScore notation software running on the the musescore.com servers - which I believe run Linux. Although in most cases, the PDF and the live anumation created on musescore.com will resemble how the score looks in MuseScore on your own system running, every once in a while for whatever reason, the layout may differ. The bigger and more complex your score, the more likelihood of that happening. As I understand it, text for lyrics in particular can be an issue, because the font on your system might be different than the font on the musecore.com system.
As a result of this, I would *not* recommend relying on the PDF generated by musescore.com to deliver to paying customers. Instead, you should generate the PDF yourself on your own system, by simply doing a File / Save As and selecting PDF as the file type. That way you know the layout of the PDF will match what you are seeing on your screen in MuseScore. I'd recommend using musescore.com for the live animation feature and as backup - so if something happens to the score on your system, you can download the copy from musescore.com.
With that understanding out of the way, in order to see what you mean about losing weeks of work, you'll have to post *your* copy of the score somewhere - like as an attachment to a response here. Then people can look at it and try to see what went wrong. If all you did is play with the settings we told you to play with, it's very unlikely you lost more than a few minutes work - simply deleting the page breaks and resetting stretch should get you right back to where you were. But again, you'll have to post your copy of the score here. Don't post it to musescore.com if the copy there is your only good copy - you don't want to overwrite that.
Meanwhile, I'll download the good copy from musescore.com so I can see it on my system so I'll have that to compare with the bad copy I want you to upload.
OK?
In reply to OK, first we need to clear up by Marc Sabatella
Hi Marc, (By the way, I really like your keyboard piece that shows by default on MScore whatever). Thank You for the lengthy involved message. It is already helping me figure out some stuff about all this--my MS software running from my own computer as differentiated from the web site MS.org. I do know my score is retrievable, as the playback on MS.org is kperfect, it's still reading my original score before I got into the page breaks, etc. Exept for the ending, which I deleted in a n attempt to renenter. I wonder how you can UN create measure. At the end, I'm seeing DOUBLE whole rests which won't delete. MS thinks thses measures should exist, and playback plays them twice, though there are NO repeat bars enterd. OK, I will have see if I can figure out how to upload my MScore file from my computer (?() I did not know you could do that. I thought you had to have my PW or be an administrator to see my file of that. It may be awhile. My task for today is to figure out what all you said in the latest Comment! (And get it uploaded to the Forum so you can see it.) Del
I've downloaded your score from musescore.com, loaded it into MuseScore on my own system, and compared.
They are different by only small amount - the Linux system running on on musescore.com was able to fit an extra measure on a small handful of pages (including the very first page). Most likely, this is due to slight differences differences from system to system in the font used for lyrics.
As a result, the version on musescore.com is exactly one page shorter. So that much counts are pretty normal an unavoidable except using the method I've described - adding explicit line breaks to ensure the version of MuseScore on another system such as the one on musescore.com does not try fit additional measures on any lines, and then reducing stretch to make sure it doesn't try to fit *fewer* measures per line. With systems locked in this way, you'd be safe - the layout on musescore.com should be the same as on your own computer.
Normally, differences in layout should present such major problems, but there are a number of problems with your score that are causing the slight differences to look like bigger problems than they otherwise would.
For instance, the slurs into measure 132 - they look bad on reformat because you have created your slurs incorrectly. If you want a slur to connect several notes, you are not supposed to just drag the slur to extend it - you are supposed to use Shift+ or select the notes before adding the slur. See Slur and also Line in the Handbook.
What you have created is a slur that is actually only connecting *two* notes, not four, and then by dragging it you are telling MuseScore "make this slur a lot longer than it needs to be". With the original layout, that *happens* to line up with the fourth note, but as soon as your score reformats, the flaw becomes obvious. Only the first two notes fit on the page, so MuseScore is dutifully connecting them, but then it is also trying to do what you said and making the slur as long as you said it should be - that is what is making the slur run off the page. That wouldn't have happened if the slur had been extended properly in the first place - MuseScore would have automatically handled this correctly, leaving your slur incompelte after the first two notes then resuming it on the next page. It's also much, much less efficient to adjust slurs the way you did and get them to look decent - you probably spent much longer than necessary on adjusting slurs.
To see what I mean, double click any slur longer than two notes than start to drag the right handle. You;ll see a dotted line appear showing you the note to which the slur is actually attached, and it's pretty much always a note way to the left of the note you have dragged the endpoint toward.
Unfortunately, virtually all of your slurs have this problem, as do most of your crescendos (which are also supposed to be extended via Shift+, not by dragging). So that is why the slight different in formatting between your computer and the msuescore.com version has wreaked such
havoc. You have told MuseScore the exact length of your slurs and hairpins rather than simply telling it which notes to connect, and it is trying to honor that even when the notes shift around so the original lengths are no longer appropriate.
I think this is also part of the reason that as soon as I try to do anything with your score on my computer, the layout changes out from under me - resembling, actually, how it looks on musescore.com. Your layout is kind of held together very precariously at this point, as MuseScore is struggling to lay out all those dragged slurs and so forth. There may be more to it than that, but this can't be helping.
To fix the problems, you should probably start by doing Ctrl+A to select all, the Ctlr+R to reset everything to its default shape and position. It will be painful as you'll have to re-extend all your slurs, but if you do it correctly, it should take much less time than it did originally. And the results will look better, and won't be so sensitive to the occasional format change between systems.
I'm guessing it will turn out there are other problems with the score as well, but right now this is most obvious.
In reply to I've downloaded your score by Marc Sabatella
Well, i did not realize I was doing slurs incorrectly! i will have to study and work with the correct MS methods as you stated, a project for next week, though! I may not fix this file, but go on with continutation of the Anasaz Act 1 in another file, and start doing the slurs correctly. Right now, though, I would like to get my original MS software in my system score at least back to where it was.! Hope this attachment uploads OK.
P.S. I've tried twice to upload the file from my Documents folder as an attachment below. It won't upload. It is under 2MB and is the Compresssed Music file, NOT the mcsz, which I know will not work. Don't know what is wrong now-- sigh
In reply to slurs entry, etc. by delhud2
First, I went to MS.org website, then I clicked on Forums, then to here to upload the file from my computer. Don't know why it would not upload. ???
In reply to P.S. on upload attempt by delhud2
To attach a file to a post, click the "File attachments" link just below the box where you are typing, then the Choose File button that appears. Navigate to your mscz file in the dialog that appears and then click it. The dialog goes awawy, and you can see your file listed in the attachments section. You can now go back to typing your message. When you press Save to post your message, the attachment will be there.
In reply to To attach a file to a post, by Marc Sabatella
OK, Thanks again, I will try uploading that way, also, downloading the MS.com score!
In reply to To attach a file to a post, by Marc Sabatella
I do not see any choose file button when i clilck on Attach new File. i tried to upload mscz file (Browsed it) and MS says cannot be uploaded. Already tried my Compressed Music file and it would not either--at least I wated a long time and it was appearing to try to upload, but didn't.
maybe you meant the Browse Button? Of course, I did browse and selected the files I wanted from Documents on my PC.
In reply to P.S. on upload attempt by delhud2
look at the attachment
it is understandable?
In reply to Ciao delhud2 by Shoichi
Yes, Thank You.
In reply to slurs entry, etc. by delhud2
Well, if the copy on musescore.com is good, then just download it - click the big Download button on the right side of the page, and choose "MuseScore" as the format. Depending on your browser & settings, it will probably prompt you for a location/name to save to. Now you have another copy of the score on your computer, should be identical to what you originally uploaded.
In reply to Well, if the copy on by Marc Sabatella
I tried twice to download the MS.com copy of the score, as you directed exactly. It would not download, first a security problem which I over ruled, but then it says my version of Windows is incompatible with the MS.comfile. I have Vista on my PC Don't know why there should be any problem.
In reply to DID not work by delhud2
this is what you need?
In reply to Cioé? by Shoichi
Wow--How did you get this? after opening and checkin quickly over it, it looks like my original MS
score on the MS software in my PC. But how could it be? It says the file is from MS.org. But I thought you must have goetten it from MS.com?!! This could be really great for my problem. BUt Marc, in order to see what I did wrong closely, needs to see my messed up file in my PC software. ALl this is very confusing to me at times, unfortunately. At least now Marc has kindly corrected me on how I should enter slurs, crescendos, etc. Del
Hi Again, i quicly looked over the whole file (score) you sent --WOW I think I at least have a decent version of it now thanks to you. I still don't know hwere you got it. MS.org? Thanks Del
In reply to The Anasazi ActI B.mscz by delhud2
You might want to re-read my initial response above, because it appears you may still be unclear on the difference between MuseScore, musescore.org, and musescore.com.\
The copy of your score on musescore.com is *exactly* the one that you uploaded. No changes of any kind whatsoever. It can be the case that msuescore.com will *display* the score differently for the reasons I stated (eg, font differences), but it's always the exact same score. Download it to your computer and you get back exactly the same thing, and it will display on your computer the way it did before.
So presumably he downloaded it from musescore.com to his computer - so now he has an identical copy to the one on musescore.com, which is identical to what you originally uploaded. He then uploaded it to this site (msuescore.org) as an attachment to his post - and again, it's an exact identical copy of the original. If you then download the file, it's once more an exact identical copy. At no time during any of this uploading and downloading is your score modified in any way whatsoever.
In reply to DID not work by delhud2
That sounds to me like a User Account Control problem.
Make sure you are logged on as an administrator and you should be able to download anything you want.
You should also consider upgrading your OS. Microsoft ceased support for Vista some time ago.
In reply to That sounds to me like a User by ChurchOrganist
I thought it was XP, for Vista should be 2017
In reply to Buonasera Michael, by Shoichi
Microsoft ceased bug fixing in VIsta in April 2012.
Only security issues are now being addressed.
In reply to Buonasera Michael, by Shoichi
I hope youare right! Vista is not really that old yet, in my view. Shoudl be still good. I got it in 2009.
In reply to That sounds to me like a User by ChurchOrganist
OK, Thank You for your kind input. I will look into that-- I think I did see something about my "settings". I am better at music than I am computers and music tech, that's for sure. Del
In reply to DID not work by delhud2
Could you post the exact text of the error message you recieve, and describe exactly what you are doing when the error occurs? I can't tell from what you are saying if the error happens on the download (in which case, it's a windows or browser issue) or on load into MuseScore.
In reply to Could you post the exact text by Marc Sabatella
Did you mean the error trying to upload my "bad" score from my PC, or trying to download my score and save from MS.com? (i could not do either one, as I told you previously. i received a link from Shoichi that looks good. (See Comments above.) It opened for me and I saved it--I don't know how he got it. maybe it would work. I t looks like my MS.com version, but it says it's from MS.org. Confusing to me-- But I know you need to see the messed up version in my PC. I guess you said I could try to fix by deleting the page breaks and reset stretch--Some of the page break symbols are partly gone or divided into two havles on the next page, etc., where the pages were sliced off. And at the end, MS will not let me delete any measures. It seems to think measures should have (in 2/2 time) 3 beats, and has even gone through the entire score putting in extra beats and overlapping measures, squeezing notes together, since I did the page breaks and lessen- stretch thing you told me to do. Except one pg, 26, it stretched only 1 measure across the entire page. The playback, though, still plays the score exactly as I originally had it! It "reads" my original way I entered it, except for some measures I deleted at the end, in my futile attempt to fix things. I doubt I will get any more done on this until next Mon. Weekend now. Thank You
In reply to exact text by delhud2
I meant mean the error you got trying to download from musescore.com.
Downloading a score from musescore.com should work exactly the same as downloading any other file from any other web site. So it's not clear to me how it could possibly have given you an error if you've ever successfully downloaded anything. That's why I was wondering what the *exact* text of the message was, and *exactly* what you did that generated the error.
But since you now have the file (although I don't understand how it could have worked to download it from here if it didn't work to download it from musescore.com), more important is for you now to upload - as an attachment to a post here - the "messed up" version, so we can see what you are talking about. It's possible you are simply more side effects of the incrrectly entered symbols.
Meaning, you will also need to post more information about the error you get trying to upload a copy of your score as an attachment to a post here on musescore.org. But please try to be precise - MuseScore is the program on your computer, musescore.org is this web site with the forum, musescore.com is the place you uploaded your score to previously. I gave you instructions for uploading a score as an attachment to a post on this forum several responses ago. Again, you starting "File attachments" right below where you type your post, then you click the "Choose File" button that appears below, then you browse to your score, which either ends in ".mscz" or else ends in nothing if never turned off the Windows option to hide extensions for known file types, then you click the score, at which point you should see the name of your score listed under your post, then you go back to typing if you like, then finally press "Save" when done just as you would have if you had not attached a file. If you you are saying you are following these steps precisely but as getting an error, I want to know which of those steps you are following when the error is displayed, and the exact text of the error message.
In reply to I meant mean the error you by Marc Sabatella
Anasazi pv score pg 4-15 Full Score pg 21-50 D.mscz, Here is the "bad version from my MS. Sorry, it did not work. (It was a MS "c;ompressed" file.) I also tried again to upoad the MS mscz, file. The error message says MS file in with a comma is a back up file only and cannot be upoaded. I cannot find a file without a comma on the end except for the Compressed file
In reply to upload by delhud2
Right-click, properties, rename and delete the comma
http://musescore.org/en/node/20367
In reply to Meanwhile, change the file name by Shoichi
The attachment you sent works for me--it opened. i wanted to edit the above post to Marc, to tell him the 3rd attachment down from his reply to his Comment worked for me also, but edit had disappeared already. The backup system is good to know on MS, I did not really understand it before, or how to get rid of the comma. I hope Marc can now tell me what to do on mky messed kup version. Del
In reply to File Anasazi by delhud2
I hope I explained myself, but if you need ...
In reply to File Anasazi by delhud2
some irregularities in filling out. I have tried to highlight some of them, if it may be helpful.
-------------
This conversation is so long that I lost myself
In the file, your attached, the page settings are quite strange.
Even / Odd page margins;
Width / Height;
Scaling.
I do not know whether they are intentional or not.
I tried to bring them back to common settings, I just set to A3.
Have a look,
In reply to @ delhud2, do you see by Shoichi
i intentionally changed some page settings, as I recall. height was too short, cutoff Double Basses at the bottom. page numbers pick up from the first Anasazi file, Act I. into and Opening Scene, uploaded previously on MS.com, so numbering does not start on pg 1! I am dividing the Opera, so much material into different files, as some parts will have Quartets, Chourses, etc. that require much larger Systems, etc. than other sections of the Opera. And I have not even attempted to print anything or parts extraction, etc. I have never done any parts extractions--don't want to worry about that kunless a Producer or Publisher wants to at some point. I see no reason why parts extraction should be any problem, but, as I say, i have no experience that way. It would be nice if there was one standard page size for the whole thing, but not practicable. Also, the Conductor will be using most likey an illuminated electronic score anyway, so you would not need the old fashioned too long pages where the score pages fold out, etc.!
In reply to @ delhud2, do you see by Shoichi
Sorry it took me ahwile to reply--the PDF file would not open for me, the second file down did. Please explain-- is the second file "fixed" by you as to more standard measurements length wise and heght-wise? What am I looking at? I do see system (page?) markers on each page-in green, etc.
In reply to @ delhud2, do you see by Shoichi
I do NOT know what you mean by setting to A3? Would your common settings make it easier to print later on or something? That could be very important! My little printer only does 81/2 by 11, so not good for orchestral scores. And I'm wondering, if I go to a professional Xerox/printing place later on, can my MS files somehow be electonically transferred to their equipment?
I'm assuming the Anasazi D file above, your attachment, is laid out with your settings you did of my score? Is that correct. If it is, I will take some time later on to go through the whole thing and I should save it, I guess. Thanks Del
In reply to @ delhud2, do you see by Shoichi
Hi There, I've been going over the above score ,(mscz), and the page settings look really nice! So much better than how I had them!! But I'm about to start a new file in which there will be included a Quartet of soloists as well as SATB Chorus, etc. So, as far as I know , as in my "When Earth Was Younger" excerpt for Women's Double Chorus, Women's Trio, etc. from Act II., on MS.com, I will need to up the page length, or MS does that automatically? (I don't remember from the Earth Younger file whether it was automatic.) But much of the time in the whole Opera I would like to use your new page settings. Will those show automatically if I go to page settings while your version is open? I still do not know what A3 is. I do need to know how to set your page settings as I go along with this project, which will take 18 months or more i figure. Thank You ,Del
In reply to upload by delhud2
FYI, all MuseScore files are compressed by default. So a compressed file *is* what you want. It's true the one with the comma is a backup, and you shouldn't ever touch that unless you need to access a backup.
So once again, if you are having trouble uploading a file, please describe *exactly* what you are doing and the *exact* (word for word; use copy and paste if possible) text of the message you are seeing.
But I see three attachments in your message, so apparently you did manage to upload *something*. However, I am not sure which of these three is meant to be which. They all have the same name. I tried opening the last of the three and don't see any obvious problems.
In reply to FYI, all MuseScore files are by Marc Sabatella
OK, i will check through the 3rd attachment and make sure it is the messed up one I was hoping for you to see--I think it was. I will get back to you on this, thanks Del
OK, i went through the whole file--it is the messed up version. Here are some examples: pg. 25, one measure stretched out over the whole page. Pg. 26, the "mess begins" pg. 27, 5 quarter notes entered in one measure of cut time (2/2) ?! and page sliced off. pg. 31, notes squeezed together in vlns 1 and 2, pg 33 odd vertical lines at left of page, pg. 39 2 measures stretched out and page cut off, page 50, string tremolos, etc. messed up when I tried to delete and reenter after they got messed up, pg 51, the ending I cannot delete and reenter, double whole rests coming out of nowhere, etc.
For some reason, I no longer see the green or black page breaks things, many of which were split into two on different pages. You did mention maybe I could delete the page breaks and reset stretch and the whole score would go back to where it was, as it was uploaded to MS.com? Even though that version is not perfect, slurs entered wrong, etc., I would be glad just to get the score back the way I originally entered it on my PC MS, before I did the page breaks and lessen stretch operations you suggested. Thank You, Del
In reply to attachments by delhud2
But you have to see this: I opened your score (taken from MuseScore.com) with Nightly.
Later, quietly, reading the warnings, I suggest you try (on a copy).
In reply to For this evening better to postpone? by Shoichi
This pdf file did not open for me. I think I can do it by setting something on myk PC- Isn't that on Adobe--i can make pdf files from my printer. I do not know what you are talking about "Nightly" ? Thanks, Del H.
In reply to For this evening better to postpone? by Shoichi
It did open, but only to one mostly blank page with the "Anasazi" title , blurry looking at the top? Don't know what this Comment of yours is all about--except I did study your MS Release Comment later on below.
In reply to attachments by delhud2
OK, I do see what you are talking about now.
It appears you have set the "fix measure width" option in style / edit general style / system. This is a bad idea in general - it's not the way scores are generally laid out, and it can lead to problems if you are not careful. MuseScore is desperately trying, but failing, to squeeze notes into measures that you have fix the width of.
As for why there is only one measure on some pages, well, you inserted manual page breaks on measure 27 and on measure 28, so MuseScore is only doing what you asked and putting measure 28 on a page by itself. Not sure what you were expecting when you did this? Also, I am not sure why you used page breaks at all - I suggested *system* breaks. But either way, MuseScore honors them literally. If you put a system or page break on measure 27 and 28, then measure 28 ends up on a system or page by itself, just as you asked.
So, to return this score to a reasonable state:
1) uncheck the fix measure widths option
2) right click a page break, select / all similar elements, delete
Now, if you wish to fix systems breaks, go in and add system breaks *where you actually want them*. If you like where the system breaks are now, add them, to the last measure of each system and to no other measures. To add a system break, just click the barline and hit Enter. Assuming you add these explicit breaks where the systems were already breaking - to the final barline of each system, there will be no obvious effect. MuseScore was already breaking the systems there. But doing this ensures it won't in the future try to put more measures on a system. Then, after doing this, select all and reduce stretch, to help ensure MuseScore doesn't in the future try to put *fewer* measures per system.
For the record, this isn't different form what I suggested before - it's just a bit more detailed, as I'm not sure where you went wrong.
In reply to OK, I do see what you are by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for your reply--I do not understand the difference between system and page breaks--since I am only using one big system for the voices and orchestra, from Flutes at the top to Contrabasses at the bottom, it does take up the whole page. As I said before, I looked up system in the Harvard Dictionary of Music, and it's "a collection of music staves" it says. I was not using a system for each group, such as one for winds, then another for brass, etc. Maybe you could clarify this for me from the MS standpoint as to what a system is? Also, I will check out the measure width settings--maybe I accidentally did that, but then, all along, as I have been doing these Opera files, when I type in the Lyrics (libretto), MS expands all the measures automatically so the voices and orchestra are lined up perfectly, etc. So how could MS be doing this if I had the measure widths set to a limited width? A lso, how can I delete page breaks if the symbols, green or black are NOT appearing now? I'm not trying to be a pain--I do appreciate your patience with all this. I myself cannot afford to spend much more time on this, since I do have a decent at least copy of it from MS.com. If it doesn't fix in a day or two of trying, I will go on to a new file and continuation of the Anasazi, being careful to to enter slurs, crescendos, etc. correctly from now on. (I did not see separate symbols for a page break or System break, did I?)(And hopefully all the other stuff, as well as I can.)
In reply to System/Page Breaks by delhud2
if your system always fills an entire page, there is not much of a difference between an system- and a page break, but there (possibly) will be once you use 'hide empty staves'
In reply to System/Page Breaks by delhud2
Indeed, if it just so happens that you have only system on a given page, then a page break will do the same as a system break on that oage kn thst day. But who knows what changes you'll make in the future - hiding emoty staves as mentioned above, reducing the orchestration, printing on larger paper, etc. So you might as well get the right break from the beginning. Yes, both symbols are right there on the palette.
If you aren't seeing the breaks now in your score, then apparently you are looking at a copy of the score from before you added them, so there is nothing to delete.
As for why "fix measure widths" is producing such bad results, I'd say it is a buggy command and should be avoided except in the simplest cases, and your score is anything but simple. Plus, it's just incorrect notation style to force measures to the same width except in very specific contexts (eg, in lead sheets that are laid out four measures per line, this allows the barlines to line up vertically). There is no reason to do it here, hence no reason to worry about why it doesn't work well. It seems you inadvertently turned on this option some time recently, I'm just suggesting you turn it back off.
In reply to Indeed, if it just so happens by Marc Sabatella
OH, so system break will be more fool proof for later on, such as in printing or hiding staves? So I should always choose system breaks if I do manual breaks? On the last measure of each page desired, of course? MS does do the breaks automatically, but I would up having slurs wrong on a few pages on MS.com since I had not entered slurs in the correct way, i understand. However, I think you said if you put in system breaks always for each page, it prevents errors? FYI, I just went directly onto my MS on my PC, and found a whole list of files on this same score, and the downloaded "decent" ones look fine, even to edit--so there is no point in my trying to fix the messed up one or asking you to spend any more time explaining how to fix it. However, how do you delete a file from the list? It's confusing to have the bad files listed on my MS in my PC. i tried select all and delete all measures, but that did seem to permanently delete them.
Also, will this long discussion under this Forum topic be saved by MS.org? Then I can reread and refer back to your replies, etc. later on if needed.
In reply to Breaks by delhud2
and scores attached to them, from time to time, will remain here.
I suggest that you create a new folder, eg. Anasazi test, and drag in it all the scores that we have collected (you never know) ...
In reply to Yes, your conversations by Shoichi
HI, I want to make sure I understand about systems from the viewpoint of MScore: In my full orchestra/voices score, the one system takes up the whole page, as Marc said. And if you had only 3-4 or less instruments, MS will fit more than one system of those onto one page? O bviously, as in a piano music score, you would normally have 2 staves treble and bass, and those 2 staves would be one "system" on MS, and you could have a few of those on each page. ( Marc told me it would be safer for future use to use manual system breaks instead of page breaks.) he said there is a symbol for system breaks? i don't remember seeing it, though. Del
In reply to Systems by delhud2
http://musescore.org/en/handbook/comparison-stable-prerelease-and-night…
You can download, extract and save to your desktop.
Attention, to be used for testing, but your score (eg D) sounds better and the PDF I made from it.
In reply to You can find the information here: by Shoichi
OK, I read the Attachment abaoave. Exactly what is a MS Release? Some new tech development that is released to be used? I am not a technocrat, sorry. Also, I was intriugued that you said my score sounds better and the PDF you made from from it? How can I access that PDF and hear how it sounds better? Is it one of the above attachments? I know you are an expert, but I will never get this Opera entered in if I get lost in technicalities and complications. Thank You, Del
In reply to Systems by delhud2
In the 'Breaks & Spacer' palette, first symbol on left.
In reply to Systems by delhud2
Yes, in a piano score, a system is two staves: RH & LH. In an opera score, a system is one staff for each voice and each instrument. If you imagines you were printing on a big scroll instead of separate pages, it's how much you'd read left to right before moving down to the next one.
This isn't just from the viewpoint of MuseScore; this is standard musical terminology.
In reply to Yes, your conversations by Shoichi
How do I drag a file into a new folder? Just go on my MS in my PC to the list of files on this score?
In reply to drag files by delhud2
Open the new folder, resize it;
You can have them side by side on the monitor?
Drag from one to another.
20:50 local time
Answer to your (on February 18, 2014 - 8:12 pm)
What I mean by "A3":
In the attached file (February 17, 2014 - 7:24 pm) I set the page size to A3.
If you open it with MuseScore will see your page complete, up to copyright. You must set the zoom to 50%. And yes, if bring it in a copy shop well equipped (plotter) you can get it printed in that format, if you feel useful.
In reply to open the folder of your scores, resize it; by Shoichi
Oh OK--here you explain what A 3 is. Between yours and Marc's comments, and going back and forth studying them, I have so much to absorb and use!
In reply to A3 by delhud2
OK, I opened both attachments. Don't know how you got the MS page settings to display OVER a page of my score, but the info is all there! I can use that a s a model of how to normally set my page settings.. All of this info from you and Marc is so very valuable and needful for me to know-- I am having to take time out from starting the next Anasazi continuation file to try to learn and absorb it all! But that will be better than having to go back and correct stuff later on!
In reply to open the folder of your scores, resize it; by Shoichi
OK, Nice to know a print shop could do that. Looming ahead for me some day will be printing and parts extraction. I hope parts extraction doesn't have its own set of complications? I don't want to worry about them now, though. Except problems with that could prevent a performance from taking place.
In reply to open the folder of your scores, resize it; by Shoichi
i just started a New file --More height space was needed, lots of percussion added . I tried A3, but it only goes down to Violas- VC and Cb strings cut off! And MS put it UnNDER the Title on the title page Space on top. So I tried A4, does give it the room on the bottom of VC and Cb, but still appears under kthe title, and only one page of staves--no pg. 2 of thke actukal score follows. Could not create more measures. What on earth is going on?
In reply to New File Anasazi continued p/v score pg 15-32 D-2 by delhud2
A4 is smaller than A3...
In reply to A4 is smaller than A3... by Jojo-Schmitz
Sorry, I meant A2-- i TRIED A2 it did give me more height and width- but it's being put on the title page under the title, with lots of blank area above the staves! Too wierd for words. mabye be I should just go with A2--if I start changing the height settings, the score could get out of proportion to the width, right? I'm trying to follo Shoichi's model page settings of a3, BUT A3 does not work for the larger number of staves needed in thie new file.
In reply to Breaks by delhud2
Right now, you are being confused by the fact that your score happens to have such large systems relative to page size that it only can fit one system per page. "Many" scores can and do fit several systems per page.
Think of a score being like a document in a word processor. A page can contain many lines. You use a line break when you want to break a line, a page break when you want to break a page. That much is never normally confusing, is it?
Think the same way in MuseScore. Imagine instead of each line being one a separate page, you are printing on paper that can fit several systems per page. So you put line breaks where you want line breaks, page breaks where you want page breaks - simple as that. In your case, it's really *never* about page breaks - it's always about system breaks. Just like if you used such a big font, or such a small page size, in a word processor that you only had one line of text per page. But still, conceptually, the difference betwene a line/system and a page should be completely clear.
Not sure what list you mean that you want to delete files from. The list in "File / Open Recent"? MuseScore normally manages that for you, keeping track of recently opens files. Files will automatically fall off that list over time. So there's nothing really to be gained by messing with it. If it really bothers you, you can do a Revert to factory settings , although this resets *all* your settings.
In reply to Right now, you are being by Marc Sabatella
I have to study your reply later today. Time does not permit right now. Thanks for taking the time to put in all the great info. Of course, I have always seen in paper scores how, if not all the orchestral instruments are being used, you can fit 2 or more systems in on one page, and the two (in bold) marks that look to me like tilted equal signs (on the left) show that. (I was trained on that in the Conservatory.) I tried, though on MS, and found that I can't just use a few instruments, such as just the strings, and put 2 or more string systems on one page, avoiding so many empty staves. It seems by deleting any instruments, MS goes back and wipes out those intsruments clear back to the beginning of the score. I don't care anyway, it's a chore planning ahead, as I often do on a paper score how many staves for what you need, etc. Anyway, on MS I'm assured I have unlimited space, so I do not need to worry about empty staves on some pages of the score.
So--please bear with me, one more question on Formatting. Some of the Libretto in Anasazi (not much) is spoken. I want to type this in its proper place in the score, so I experimented with creating a Horizontal Frame, made it quite large. However, I can't get any text to type inside the Frame. (Going to Create Text did not work.)The Manual says frames may contain text or pictures. Please advise. Del
In reply to systems, etc. and Text in Frames by delhud2
Right-click into the frame -> add frame text
In reply to Right-click into the frame -> by Jojo-Schmitz
OK, Thank You. I will try that.
In reply to systems, etc. and Text in Frames by delhud2
http://musescore.org/en/node/24475
and the usual pictogram (attached) ;-)
In reply to If it can be useful: by Shoichi
i would sooner just have the Frame expand while I type directly in, I think now, anyway.
In reply to systems, etc. and Text in Frames by delhud2
As we pointed out before, if you want a "condensed score" (the term for a score that shows only the instruments actually playing), do *not* try to manually delete the instruments that have empty staves. As you have noticed, this truly deletes them score-wide. Instead, you simply go to Style / Edit General Style and turn on the "Hide empty staves" option. But as I warned when I originally told you about this, there are a number of caveats that make this not a great option either.
In reply to As we pointed out before, if by Marc Sabatella
For sure-- I do not want to get involved with problems/bugs from the Hide Empty Staves option!
In reply to Condensed Scores by delhud2
Clarification:
I attach a picture: On my PC (Vista) the PDF is 33 pages, 360.64 KB.
It seems strange that you can not see it, maybe you have to wait that your computer open it properly?
Condensed scores:
I have prepared a How-to:
http://musescore.org/en/node/24765
If it is useful for you.
Maybe I work with pc more than you, but I'm not a technician. If you reread calmly the various interventions, and tempt some experimentation, I believe that some of the procedures will be clearer for you.
Perhaps it is time to open an other conversation for a possible new problem, otherwise we will have to split this post into the chapters and paragraphs ;-)
In reply to Buonasera delhud, by Shoichi
OK-i t is getting quite long--yes, I am just starting to understand a lot of it, and have started a new file so I can continue on. I do find, though, that just setting page settings on A3 did not work, since my new file has more instruments. SO I put it on A2. A3 cut off some instruments on the bottom. OK I guess this is the end of this subject on MS.org Forum Thanks for all your help. I will keep referring back to the Comments and keep experimenting. Del
In reply to Buonasera delhud, by Shoichi
Don't know why--I have Vista also.
In reply to Buonasera delhud, by Shoichi
Hi, Sorry I did not mean to imply that you were a technocrat or something, I know you are a creative person. It's just that you know a lot more about MS and probably computers in general than I do, it seems. THANKS FOR ALL YOUR KIND HELP, AND MARC AND OTHERS ALSO. And Yes, I will now just be calm and re-read a lot of the Comments/Replies and start working with it all on M my next file on MS of the Opera. Del