I there a way to stop the canvas moving about?

• Mar 8, 2018 - 01:12

Is there a setting to stop the page sliding about while I'm editing the score? I find it really distracting. I'd like to be able to pin the page down so that it behaves similarly to, for example, MS Word. I've discovered the setting to switch between vertical and horizontal scrolling but either way the page still moves both vertically and horizontally in response to the mouse. It's making me seasick :)


FWIW, though, Word doesn't stay "pinned" either. Nor do most other programs. They all tend to follow your cursor, otherwise you'd soon be typing off the screen. Few programs allow that, and for good reason - while you might think at first you'd like to move the canvas yourself, when you realize just how often you'd be moving it, you come to appreciate it being done for you most of the time. The answer is to be a little better about figuring out when it makes sense and when it doesn't, but a problem is that this is very subjective.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Maybe I didn't describe the issue well. These images illustrate.

  1. In most programs (in particular in Word to illustrate here): when the page is fully inside the window it does not move - it says in a fixed position in the window.

  2. When a MuseScore page is fully inside the window it does move in response to gestures - sometimes unexpectedly, since the same gestures are used for other things too, such as dragging text objects.

My impression is that #1 familiar whereas #2 is confusing. It would be desirable to have an option to disable that behaviour so that the page placement behaves the same way as Word etc.

Screen Shot 2018-03-08 at 17.01.46.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-08 at 17.03.02.jpg
Screen Shot 2018-03-08 at 17.03.38.jpg

In reply to by polarbreeze

In the case of MuseScore, it would be equally useful, perhaps more useful, for the pages to scroll horizontally while staying fixed vertically. I think what's disorienting is that the pages can move simultaneously in both directions so you can easily lose track of which page you're on. That 2-dimensional movement feels natural when it's within a single page (canvas); however, once it goes beyond, to other pages, the illusion of "real life" is lost. I can't think of any other programs that have this behaviour but my experience is not extensive.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Sure, it's normal to move when needed. But there's no reason to be able to move the score further right or up than the top of the first page.

That said, that's a minor issue, that you can just get used to.

The real issue is just that left-click is overloaded. Moving the score should be handled with the middle mouse button. This is how most programs with drag scrolling work. For OSS examples, see how drag scrolling works in GIMP and Inkscape. It's the same way it works in Musescore, except it uses the middle mouse button.

This would eliminate the issues the OP has. And it is something I submitted as a feature request long go, but was only ever partially implemented.

In reply to by turkeypedal

Actually, there is reason to be able to position the score this way, to facilitate zooming while keeping a particular element centered. But that's beside the point. Sure, middle click drag could be nice some day, but click and drag is not the recommended way of moving a score in the first place. Instead, use either the mouse wheel / equivalent swipe gesture, and or the page up/down keys, etc.

That said, I do agree it is inconvenient to have click/drag overloaded in this was it does invite error.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Scroll wheels and Page Up/Page Down can't scroll left/right, though. As far as I know, you can only scroll horizontally using the drag method--even in continuous view when there is nothing below to scroll.

That said, we're talking about the opposite problem. The user isn't attempting to scroll with left mouse. They are attempting to do something else, and accidentally wind up scrolling when they didn't mean to. That's why I propose middle-click pan, and to be able to disable Left-click pan. That way panning can't be accidentally invoked.

I think it might be THE way to resolve the issue mentioned by the creator of this bug.

In reply to by turkeypedal

Sure they can - Shift+scroll is the standard shortcut across most OS's & applications for horizontal scroll. Similar, Shift+two-finger-swipe for most touch devices. Some touch devices also support horizontal two-finger swipe, others provide scroll zone. I've yet to encounter a computer of any make that doesn't provide this out of the box.

But again, I do agree that dragging via left button is problematic. Middle button dragging would still be just as inefficient and just an not-recommended because scrolling so much superior, but apparently i's already implemented. So all that would be needed is to disable left-button dragging, but I don't think there would be much support that, because for all its drawbacks (just as inefficient as middle button but also more risky), it's the single most discoverable method and hence important to provide for new users.

In reply to by polarbreeze

Thanks! Can't tell you how much the floating canvass has bugged me since I started using MuseScore a couple months ago. Your solution does the trick. It seems most of the folks who replied to you OP just didn't understand the problem ... or had other home made solutions. Still, odd that no one posted your solution before you ... Thanks, again. -- mandojoe

In reply to by bartljoe

For the record, the issue is pretty hardware-specific, which is why sometimes it gets misunderstood. On most systems, pages don't floating, because scrolling is always either horizontal or vertical, and. But some systems support free scrolling, and on those, it's much easier to get into these situations.

In reply to by polarbreeze

Maybe in the future (i don't know; just thinking):
The "Scroll Lock" key on the keyboard may work.

Temporary advice:
Try typing entries and corrections often with the keyboard (and shortcuts).
Use the mouse only to mark and select. (only when you have to)
Thus you can experience this problem with minimum level.

This was a problem in v.2 and remains in MuseScore 3. Is there a fix for this problem? Hope there will be a solution in next update.

In reply to by eyewy

Which problem, specifically? There were several discussed in this thread, as well as solutions given. In particular, if your computer does not provide the ability to do a true vertical scroll and thus you find your canvas "drifting" when you try to scroll as vertically as you can, simply enable the option in Edit / Preferences / Canvas to limit the scroll area. If you are talking about a different problem, please explain further, with a sample score and steps to reproduce the problem.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

That the canvas is moving while trying to select notes. I would like it to be the other way: move the canvas with shift and left mouse click (or middle mouse button, which works too in musescore 3) and select groups of notes with just the left mouse button depressed. Maybe it can be done in Musescore 3 but I didn't find it. In Sibelius and Dorico it works this way.

In reply to by Diderique

Depending on how you are doing the selecting, the canvas should not be moving when merely selecting notes (for instance, by clicking). So in order to understand the problem you are seeing, we would need a sample score and more information about exactly what you are doing.

Selecting groups of notes, though, is not normally something you'd do by dragging with the mouse. The usual and much more accurate and efficient way to do this is by using standard gestures like clicking one note, shift+clicking another to select everything in that range, or clicking one notes and using Shift plus cursor keys to extent the selection, etc.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thank you for your explanation Marc. The selection methods you describe also work of course, but they differ slightly in other programs. E.g. Dorico just does it a little differently when using shift and cursor keys. So therefore I intuitively try to drag a frame because then you see what you are selecting. It's the most direct way for me. And that is possible in Musescore too, but only while holding shift. However I would like an option to reverse the behavior: dragging a frame starting in a blank location in the score would select notes and dragging the canvas with shift would move the canvas. However I would never use the latter as I do this with the middle mouse button. In Dorico I can choose between those two modes (and in Sibelius too, If I remember correctly). It would be great if Musescore would have this option too. Then my way of working could be universal for all notation programs I'm working in. I love Musescore because I can use it with my students.
I've enclose an example. The screen dump was made while holding down the left mouse button, but the mouse cursor was not captured (probably because shift was down too).
And another even more desirable behavior would be if Musescore would select only the 4 lower notes after this selection was dragged-selected, but after releasing the mouse button the 3 upper notes in between (on the lower staff) are selected too. this is not logical to me, as only the 4 lower notes become blue while selecting and were in the frame. This would also work a lot faster than selecting the 4 notes with ctrl + clicking. There's no other way to make such a selection as far as I know.

Attachment Size
selecting only the lowest notes.png 26.25 KB

In reply to by Diderique

As mentioned, dragging is specifically a way to create range selections, which are by far the most common type of selection. So even if an option were added to allow drag-select without Shift, it would not help with this specific unusual case of only wanting to select certain notes within a range. And for the much more usual case of wanting to select the entire range, again, there are far more efficient ways than dragging already.

But I could see it be useful to someday also add another mode, some other modifier you press while dragging, that would to this special case thing of only selecting the notes whose heads lie within the rectangle.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thank you for your reply Marc. Your way of working obviously differs from mine and it seems I am not able to convince you of usefulness of this sensible extension of the MuseScore functionality.
1. As long as I work with computers rubberband selection has been the main way of selecting in all sorts of programs, from graphic programs to daws and music notation programs (Atari Notator, Atari/Win Logic, Capella, Encore, Sibelius, Cubase Score and Dorico - I've worked with them all). So it is still the primary way I use to select one or more notes. And in all those programs it works without shift (see the attached Dorico gif). I'm not a programmer but I assume it would not be a very complicated option to add to MuseScore.
2. And all named programs select only notes within the dragged rubber band if there's only one voice involved (see again the gif), so Musicscore would follow the standard if it would work similarly. In this particular case it would be 3 mouseclicks less to select only the notes in the lower octave.

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selecting notes in Dorico.gif 101.7 KB

Just came across this thread and hoped to solve an issue I have with the GUI. Generally speaking, in most programs, using the left mouse to drag creates a marquee selection. This is the case in Word (select multiple words/characters), Illustrator/Corel (select multiple objects) and even Filemaker (select multiple objects).

I find it incredibly distracting and counter productive to hold the Shift key when attempting to marquee select a series of notes. In every other program I know of, a modifying key is added to the left-button drag to pan the document in a direction, and just dragging selects something.

I simple preferences toggle would be really helpful for this.

In reply to by Clayton P. King

Draging programs need to resort to things like dragging to make selections because they aren't inherently linear. Notation programs like MuseScore are able to manipulate information in a more hierarchical fashion but in which objects that are logically linear might overlap physically. E.g., notes or markings below one staff being physically lower on the page than notes or markings above the staff below. Hence, dragging is not a particularly great way to make range selections. Instead, much better to use the standard keyboard shortcuts like Shift plus cursor keys, or the more precise mouse interactions like click / Shift+click.

So given this, needing to resort to dragging for range selections should be relatively uncommon, but wanting it to move the canvas would normally be far more common. Not saying there couldn't be an option added someday, but do realize, there are reasons why dragging to select things isn't how MsueScore is optimized.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I don't entirely disagree. However, filtering by voice allows selection of a line of notes (whether or not they're the only ones on the staff). It was just a thought...

For many, many years I have said that equal use of keyboard and mouse is ultimately less productive because one has to remove one's hands from one device, orient on the other, take action. Rinse. Repeat. I'll admit this is a holde over from my ODS days and the advent of WYSIWIG interfaces. LOL

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