Vertical frame: Unexpected behavior of Top gap

• Sep 20, 2018 - 17:32
Reported version
P2 - Medium
S4 - Minor

Win 10, MS 3.0.0, 26ad655

  1. Open the attached score. Click on the vertical frame and use the "Reset to default" button on "Top Gap."
    Result: The value changes to 7 (expected?).
  2. Reduce "Top gap" to zero.
    Result: Nothing happens. "Top gap" already appears to be zero!
Attachment Size
marble_halls.mscz 35 KB


Status active by design
Regression No
Workaround No

top gap is ignored if the frame is the first element on the page, this is good and by design
Add a 2nd frame and see that both frames are now 14sp apart

Status by design active

Is it, though? What if you want the frame lower even though it is the first thing on the page? As mentioned in the forum, top gap worked for this purpose in 2.x. Seems a valid concern to me.

Good point. No doubt the new way systems are laid out will also play into this, and maybe that is why the default is now 7sp? I'm not totally understand how this gap is applied. Seems to be relative to the bottom of the skyline (?) for the staff above - content below the staff pushes the frame down. That's nice, but even when the staff is empty and both gap and format / style / page / top margin are set to 0, there is about 5sp of space before the top of the frame. It seems frame are taking min system distance into account, which they didn't in 2.x. That is, a 0 setting for top margin and for gap placed a frame flush against the system above, but in 3.0, this happens only if you set min system distance to 0 as well. That's probably fine, but it does reinforce the fact that much has changed about the interpretation of these settings.

Anyhow, bottom line for me is that there should be a way to have a frame at the top of a page not be at the top of the page. 2.x interprets the top gap relative to the page margin if the frame is the first thing on the page, which does seem reasonable to me.