Request alternate position key signature when using beginnng repeat sign

• Mar 12, 2019 - 15:12
Reported version
3.0
Priority
P1 - High
Type
Functional
Frequency
Once
Severity
S5 - Suggestion
Reproducibility
Always
Status
active
Regression
No
Workaround
No
Project
  1. key signature change during score.
  2. add start repeat sign
  3. key signature shows before the repeat sign in the prior measure. Should be after bar line change.

This has happened in multiple scores and parts. I am sending one for your reference.

I am using Version 3.0.4.5763

Attachment Size
1st Baritone (BC).mscz 38.81 KB

Comments

According to Elaine Gould in Behind Bars p. 234, the repeat marks should be placed after the key signature. MuseScore 3 does this correctly.

I agree with the OP! And it's impossible to fix because removing the check from automatic placement does not allow you to move the key signature to the other side of the bar line. Gould at times has an agenda to change notation rather than explain what has happened in the past. This is a obviously a case.

In reply to by mattmcclinch

Sorry but I respectfully disagree! All printed music I have worked with always has the key signature after the barline. Whatever type that may be. I also found another problem when using the repeat bar lines. At the end of the repeat section, all the empty measures in the repeat do not multi measure. I have enclosed an updated part to show this problem. It is at rehearsal marking "F".

Enclosed original part (PDF) which I am transposing from Treble Clef to Bass Clef for a Baritone player in the band to show how it is printed.

Attachment Size
1st Baritone (BC).mscz 42.89 KB
1st Baritone Bb.pdf 1.17 MB
Title wrong position for keysign when using beginnng repeat sign Request alternate position key signature when using beginnng repeat sign
Severity S3 - Major S5 - Suggestion
Priority P1 - High

I've seen it both ways. I think the layout Gould recommends is more logical in most cases, after all, the key doesn't normally change again on the repeat. The only time that would make sense if there is in fact a second key change within the repeat, so the key signature is needed - both at the beginning and a courtesy at the end - within the repeat. Which to me says, either should be possible. And in fact, it already is possible but only with some fairly convoluted workarounds (eg, marking the real repeat invisible, adding a fake one in the previous measure). So, I do support implementing a simpler option, such as perhaps a property to set on the key signature.

You may not need to change key or time signatures, but it also doesn't hurt if you declare the same ones again. So, technically, only repeat-bar first is needed. But I'm all for more options.

I do have one thing to add, though: the behavior I've seen most often is the one in MuseScore 2. There, the repeat bar usually comes first, except at the beginning of a line. Then it comes after any clef, key signature or time signature. I can't recall ever seeing the repeat bar before the main clef of a line.

I would prefer not to have to manually set a different repeat symbol depending on where it falls on the page, as that can change during composition. The behavior in MuseScore 2 was perfect for my needs.

To be clear, we're not talking about repeats at the beginning of line, but ones in the middle, and how they are positioned relative to a change of key that appears within the line.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Yes. Like files I sent with my request. No at beginning of line. Key chnge is at therepeat sign. It is to right of single barline, but moves to before for any other barline. This happens in the file I sent at rehearsal "E". Also after last update, time signatures are showing twice. When line break is used or chahged. I have been setting one to invisible as a work around.

If you are having some sort of issue with time signatures, please open a new issue and attach your score and most importantly, steps to reproduce the problem.

The issue with the multimeasure rest is also unrelated, but this one is known and already has a fix slated for a coming update - see #282234: Volta breaks multimeasure rest

Again, for key signatures, what we currently do is correct "by the book", but indeed, an easier way to reproduce the look of historical scores that the standards of their day would be nice.