Turn & Inverted turn between 2 notes
The gruppetto is placed by default above a note but it does not seem to have a way of placing it between 2 notes otherwise than moving it horizontally.
Would it be possible to get this by selecting the 2 notes and double-clicking on the palette icon or by dragging it between the 2 notes ?
My request is based on the fact that the effect obtained is different if the ornament is above a note or between 2.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruppetto_(ornement_m%C3%A9lodique)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornament_(music)#Turn
https://www.thoughtco.com/turns-piano-ornaments-2701410
http://musicofyesterday.com/historical-music-theory/musical-ornaments-h…
However, the way in which the effect of the ornament is made is rather vague (classical, baroque, modern, varying with the context - rhythm, tempo, etc ...) my query concerns only the positioning of the ornament between 2 notes, his performance being only a bonus.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Gruppetto 1.mscz | 20.26 KB |
| Gruppetto 1.png | 59.55 KB |
Comments
There is no way to automatically place an ornament between two notes. Articulations and ornaments are set for a single note.
If someone were to implement it, it would need to be what ever a glissando is to keep it centered between notes, or possibly even a new category of ornament since you would want them at a fixed position above the staff.
Thank you for your reply. I think that needs to be studied.
I second this request. Turns between notes are quite common.
Agreed. In principle this should be doable. I'd have known how to do it for 2.x, but much fo the 3.0 layout code is still a mystery to me, and still a work in progress anyhow.
As a workaround, I manually place the grupetto / turn between those two notes, mark the notes as "don't play" (Inspector Panel -- F8 on Windows), add a second voice and add the notes the way it should be performed. Then I make this second voice invisible (piece by piece) and adjust the stems directions. It's a lot of steps and it breaks the placement if the page formatting is changed, but it is doable. I hope someday MuseScore has this grupetto / turn between two notes placed and performed automatically.
In reply to #1 by mike320
Sorry I've never used this program before, how do you find turns and ornaments? At the beginning there ws a menu on the left side but now I cannot find it anymore!
The palette (hit F9 or use View > Palette), probably in the advanced workspace
Came up again in https://musescore.org/en/node/309348
This should be implemented as delayed-turn and delayed-inverted-turn, the same tags in Musicxml. To add accidentals with correct positions with correct playback is also important. The accidentals should have property of placement above or below (I talk using Musicxml's concept). This will ease both notation and braille transcription. Now we have to manually adjust these symbols and accidentals in braille, and it's quite non-automatic.
Relates to #311175: [EPIC] Engraving issues and suggestions
Maybe we need an Inspector option for articulations or ornaments to specify whether they occur on "note start" or "note end". Are there any other elements that this option should apply to?
In reply to Maybe we need an Inspector… by shoogle
AFAIK, only turns have such thing, and the ones between notes are called delayed-turn and delayed-inverted-turn in Musicxml. For other objects, no on and between note property, but accidentals attached to a turn sometimes needs a placement property, in case it's for the lower auxiliary note. In Musicxml, the placement="below" is used for such kind of accidental, and it will be another topic.