MIDI OUT implementation

• Sep 23, 2011 - 17:30
Reported version
2.1
Type
Functional
Severity
S5 - Suggestion
Status
closed
Project

This is a request to implement the MIDI OUT function in the next releases of Musescore.
I think this should be a wonderful help for the musicians that have a professional MIDI keyboard and/or expander.
In fact, I think that no library of internal sounds or virtual synth can compete with a real workstation keyboard or synthesizer. Moreover, your software is perfect to create any form of arrangement using the standard notation mode.
Thanks a lot for your work and have a good time!
Mauro (Roma - Italy)


Comments

Hello!
Yes, I want to say MIDI OUT.
I have a workstation keyboard linked to PC with a MIDI/USB interface, and I'd like to hear my MuseScore works with my keyboard voices.
I think MuseScore is perfect for me because I know perfectly the notation trascription mode (graduate in musical theory and solfeggio at St. Cecilia conservatory - Roma, Italy) but, at this time, I can only use the MIDI IN function.
I tried to use Jack and/or MIDI Yoke, but they didn't work...
Thanks a lot!

Status (old) needs info active

An easy workaround is to export to midi and use a midi player which supports your external keyboard.

I dont' think this a duplicate of #5163: I'm NOT searching an option to avoid the matter with other software, I'm asking to MS developers to IMPLEMENT this function in the source code, as is for the MIDI IN function. I have a MIDI/USB interface between my PC and my workstation keyboard, and I'd like to hear my works from my keyboard, and not from the internal/virtual soundfonts...
Thank you and hear from you soon!
Bye, Mauro (Roma - Italy)

MuseScore is great, so easy to use>
But the midi out issue - oh dear; I hope full resolution is on its way; and yes (I believe), we shthe uses should have to pay for the upgrade.

REDHAWK

Status (old) duplicate needs info

I have 1.1 Rev 4611 on a XP-64 Professional SP2 i5 CPU 750 @ 2.67 GHz 8gb Ram- Need HELP?
Or if you wish, have 1.1 Rev4611 on Win 7 (64) Home Premium Dual core (E6500 @ 2.93 GHz

It seems Jack does not work on 64 Bit. - I don't have any 32bit machines anymore.

Trying to get MIDI out to my Yamaha DX-11 (Cabled with MIDISport (1x1) Serial to USB )

The 64 bit knows of the USB connector Insertion but will not connect as I have seen demos of JACK.

mmm... I think now a full source code revision is long overdue. Computers running 32-bit are now less and less and, as I said in the past months, I would not use solutions that circumvent the problem, but a real implementation in the software. If I must pay to fix it, I shall gladly do, if they come to a definitive solution. I hope to soon have a decisive response from programmers. Greetings to all.

Mauro 58 (Roma - Italy)

No, I don't think this as a mistake, but a choice of the programmer's staff to not include the MIDI OUT function.
Several months ago, they told me then a MIDI OUT implementation was on the go, but since today I have had nothing.
For my mind, a sequencer software without a MIDI OUT function is as a spring without sun. I hope always in the future...

When you post issues, there's six drop-boxes (Project. Component. Assigned. Category. Priority. Status.).

Assigned is used for developers, saying they will take on an issue to try and fix it - I'm assuming garyharris assigned himself by accident.

For the record, MuseScore is not a sequencer; it's not even close to one. It's a notation program. A notation program that can do playback directly and generate an audio or MIDI file but not do direct MIDI out is roughly like a sequencer that can display in standard notation but doesn't let you, oh, say, fine tune the distance between an accidental and the main note - sure, it might be nice as an nhancement someday, but it's hardly "spring without sun". If you want sequencing, use a sequencer. If you want notation, use a notation program, but don't expect any one program to excel at both if it doesn't claim to.

... and what would be a notation program that implements the MIDI OUT? I'm looking for a long time, but I have not found anything satisfactory. If you have an answer, I'd be grateful, but please do not say that it is hard "spring without sun" because that is exactly what I think of MuseScore without MIDI OUT. Maybe I was wrong to call it sequencer, but the essence remains the same: something is missing. In addition, in September 2011 Thomas (Talk # 5163, # 8 response) told me that version 2.0 of MS would support the MIDI OUT, ​​so I'm still waiting for news ...

I beleive Finale and Sibelius probably implement MIDI OUT, but you will find they are also very far from being sequencers. Cubase and Logic are the two most well-known programs that have attempted to fuse notation and squencing, but both are much stronger on the sequencing side than the notation side of things.

Anyhow, for further discussion, you should use the forum, not the issue tracker. The request to add this complex and hardware dependent sequencing feature into what is otherwise a platform independent notation program has been logged, and there is really nothing more to say about it here.

In fact I do not want a sequencer: I was looking for a notation program that has the MIDI OUT and MuseScore seemed to me the best I could find for the notation. As I wrote in my presentation, I have a degree in theory and solfeggio, and I need a suitable program to write and listen to the arrangements created by me. I just asked the developers if it was possible to implement this function

And then I did not ask you anything, I was just answering other questions. You are entered into the discussion and have begun to criticize my words... If you are a developer or a staff member, introduce yourself to me as Thomas did long ago, otherwise how do I know who is talking about? And last, as I said before, I'm just waiting for Thomas to give me news as he had anticipated me months ago.

Good evening!

No need to get upset. I'm just a fellow user trying to help keep the issue tracker free of unnecessary discussion (except as needed to understand the issue). We all understand the issue, so no further discussion is appropriate here. This separation between issue tracker and forum is someting the developers often ask us to honor; I'm just repeating this request of theirs (which has been directed at me at times as well).

Marc, I'm not angry, but - I repeat - I was just responding to another question, and your intervention seemed to me out of place.
So, I'm looking forward to a response by Thomas (with whom I spoke directly in the topic #5163) or one of the other software developers.
Have a good day.

@Mauro58 I think there is a misunderstanding. In my response, I said: "Implementing this MIDI out feature is currently beyond the focus for MuseScore 2.0". Beyond means that MIDI out is not to be expected for MuseScore 2.0.

Thank you, Thomas. I not translated your answer correctly in my language.
Given this result, is perfectly useless to continue this conversation.
Farewell to you all.

Mauro 58 (Rome - Italy)

Status (old) needs info postponed

Marking postponed as obviously this won't be addressed for version 2.0

Presumably we can then resurrect it as a feature for the version after?

MuseScore is not a synthesizer either, yet (quite rightly) a lot of effort is being put into enabling it to be used as such, because when notating, it's very helpful to quickly listen to what you have created. The addition of MIDI out is surely much less work than full integration with FluidSynth -- however after a brief dive into the code it seems very messy in that all the audio and midi output (a lot of the code for Jack MIDI output is already there, but it's never called) seems mixed together.

Would it be a better approach to just interface with your synth by MIDI? That way you have better internal separation of code and as an added bonus this MIDI output can be used and abused by creators however they may see fit.

I think you're wrong about implementing MODI being less work than simply integrating a full- featured synth lubrary that already provides full real-time processing, clock management, etc. But in any case, if you are a developer and want to discuss it further, the place to do so is in the developers mailing list, not a closed issue. Or, if you are not a developer but wish to discuss it anyhow, use the forum.

Hallo

As Musescore can already send midi out via JACK (I can use all my VSTi in Win7 that way), I see no great problems here.

What is missing is something as:

    - Making the Staff Text stuck to a precise rhythmic position (is perhaps already so?)
    - MIDI Channel in Staff Text properties: user definable from 1 to 16
    (perhaps with the possibility to define a MIDI port, to overcome the 16 Channels limit...)
    - MIDI action: insert a [CC num,val] or a [PC num] (to begin with... :-)

This is perhaps not "beyond the focus for MuseScore x.0", I hope :-)

Thank you
er

Hello.

All I can see is that, despite the passage of some years, nothing has been done to manage a real MIDI out.
I think it is much less demanding for the system to send a MIDI out instead of managing a large library of sounds that will NEVER be up to those of a real synthesizer workstation.
I don't want a software that emulate the MIDI sounds: there are already too many on the net.
Enough for me even just a program change command for each staff!
All I want is to connect the USB MIDI interface to my professional keyboard and hear what I have encoded with MuseScore.
I really hope that sooner or later someone will be able to implement this feature.
I'm just a musician; if I were a programmer, I would have already done it long ago by myself...

Bye.

Please do not re-categorize issues, especially ones already closed.

MuseScore is a notation program, not a sequencer. It does have playback features, but they simply are not prioritized as highly as notation features, nor should they be, because it is not the main purpose of the program.

As for MIDI out versus built-in synthesis, most users of MuseScore do not own MIDI synthesizers or care one bit about them. Of those who do own synthesizers, in many cases, they are only cheap toys with sounds not as good asthose found in a good software soundfont. It is far more important to provide reasonable playback for the majority who will rely on the built in sounds than to provide advanced features for the few who wish to experiment with high quality external MIDI synthesizers. MuseScore already supports JACK to allow you to use these, please look into how to configure this.

Also, FWIW, I think you underestimate the difficult of implementing real-time output processing. We don't do that currently; the dirty work is handled by the fluidsynth library. Actually implementing MIDI out is non-trivial.

Marc, I see that after three years nothing has changed.
I have not re-categorized anything, I just responded to another post.
If this thread is closed, because it leaves open to post?

And, anyway, I do not agree with you.
At this time, all cheap keyboards (except the real toys) have a sound library much better than any software soundfont (unless you're talking about professional libraries, which cost much more than a keyboard).

Every time I have to hear what I have encoded with MuseScore, I am forced to save a MIDI file, hear it from the keyboard, and repeat this for EVERY single step that I have to correct (volume, dynamics, harmonies, etc.), because what you hear from the soundfont doesn't match to that which is generated by a real instrument.
Much more work than what you say.

Some time ago I tried to implement JACK on my PC, but has NEVER worked.
If there have been some improvements, then please put in MS website clear and simple instructions on how to integrate MuseScore with JACK to get a simple playback.
That's all.

According to the log, you changed the Priority from Normal to Critical. You can see it right at the top of your previous post above.

Anyhow, you are obviously telling an untruth - in order to hear what you have written in MuseScore, you don't *have to* do those things you describe. You *choose to*. It's your choice to do it that way rather than simply using the buil in synthesizer like the most people do, or spending the few extra minutes to set up JACK.

If you are having problems getitng JACK to work in the current version of MuseScore, please post in the support forum, and someone should be able to help. Describe in that thread exactly what you have tried in the current version (not what you tried three years ago), what you expected to see happen, and what happened instead.

Marc,

I usually attend on many forums, for musicians or other, and I never found so fussy mods.
I repeat, I was just answering to another user exposing my views.
Anyone would understand that changing the priority level in my post was only a mere error: as I often said in the past, I’m not an English language native, I’m Italian.
So, I can easily misunderstand some entries in the forms. Specifically, I thought that the priority level was for the significance of the post
I just said what I would like to do with MuseScore (and that, if I could do, I would have already done).
If you no longer wish that we write in this post, close it and lock it.
Otherwise, you can’t stop me to express my free thought. Period.
Have a great day…

Mauro58

Mauro - the problem here is that there is no-one currently on the development team with the necessary experience of writing the code to produce the MTC for syncing to other MIDI devices. Consequently the current solution to MIDI Out is to use JACK.

This does work on Windows, but it requires correct configuration, and I am currently working on an Ebook about this.

You can see some of the progress of my work on this in a very long thread in Technology Preview......
https://musescore.org/en/node/33491

If you need specific help with setting up JACK on your system, I suggest you email me.

As I prior said, I have not raised anything. I just replied to another user (# 29 in this post).
I'm not interested in discussing anything, just waiting for a possible development.
Now, if you do not mind, can we close this useless and sterile quarrel?...
Have a good time.

Mauro58

@ JoJo-scmhitz

... But none of you read prior answering?...
See #34: I clearly said that was a mere mistake caused of my poor knowledge of your language!
It's incredible!...

@ church organist:

Thank you SO much for tour kindness:
This afternoon I'll write you.
THX again!

It would be cool if the communication was on the forum instead than email... I guess other users would be interesting. I would.

I'm on the verge of being able to provide a How to/Tutorial. I just need some time to write it.

Other (paid) commitments are currently getting in the way :(

Greetings:

I would like to make a simple point: the JACK implementation is inadequate for getting MIDI from Musescore to other MIDI devices.

For one thing, JACK does not work as documented on Windows 8. I have been researching/working with it for several days now on my Windows 8 system, and I am seeing that (1) the Win64 version actually appears to install Win32 drivers, (2) following various instructions for running it (including those found on various Utube videos) do not yield the results they are supposed to, and (3) most importantly, it does not work with software that accepts MIDI input -- most notably, it does not work with Reason 9.

When I run JACK on my machine the ASIO driver fails to start. This failure is a silent failure, and based on what I am seeing using third- party monitoring software, I believe that the driver crashes on Windows 8. Considering that the latest version of JACK predates Windows 8 by several years, and that there hasn't been a new version of JACK that has been updated for Windows 8, this should not be surprising.

I run the JACK controller and attempt to use it to connect Musescore to Reason, but while JACK can find Musecore, it doesn't see Reason. Furthermore, Reason does not see JACK when I attempt to detect/specify MIDI drivers.

Reason does see LoopBe1, which every other composition software, free or otherwise, can see. I can connect other notation software, most notably Finale Notepad and MuseInk Lite, to LoopBe1 without problems.

I like MuseScore. I have been keeping up with it since v1.1. Unfortunately, its dependency on JACK makes it unusable for my purposes, and I am sure that there are plenty of others who have MIDI devices/software that have similar frustrations.

Accordingly, I have suspended my use of Musescore.

I do implore you folks to put real MIDI out functionality into Musescore. That is the standard that just about everyone else uses, and as many other organizations have learned, following standards is really the best path to take. This isn't just about using Reason. The reality is that keyboards, Sound generators, and other devices/software that use MIDI have improved to the point where the sounds that Musescore provides, good as they are, are really inadequate for the final arrangements people make. That is why I started looking at connecting Reason to Musescore. I was tired of composing things on Musescore, exporting to MIDI, then importing the MIDI files into Reason and then spending hours tweaking my Reason instruments due to the fact that the sounds Reason makes are different from what Musescore makes. I'd rather make my compositions in Musescore and play them using my Reason instruments. I can do that using Finale Notebook and LoopBe1.

I cannot do that using Musescore and JACK.