Fine on a note in a measure

• Oct 10, 2016 - 03:16

How can I Fine on a single note in a measure? When I move the Fine to the measure the music ends at the end of the measure. I would like to Fine on the second beat of the measure. How can I do this?


In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

"the fine applies to the end of a measure, i.e. a barline": In my experience this is not necessarily so. That needs only apply if there is a pick-up at the beginning.

I have seen and written many pieces where the first bar of the piece is a full bar per the time signature and where the last note of the piece is a shot, somewhere within the last bar, always notated in time with proper articulation.

I have never seen what I think you are talking about, but I'm still confused. What is the purpose of the invisible bar line, which, in reality is impossible to notate?

Normally the FINE is at the end of a measure but sometimes at the end of a phrase where there is another note in that measure (that is only played the first time round). MuseScore only allows for the placement at the end of a measure. You can end on a single note that is not the last note in the measure by first selecting that note and then splitting the measure at that note. This creates a new "end of measure" where you can place the FINE. In order to avoid confusing the person playing the piece, however, it might be wise to at least have a dotted barline instead of making it invisible so that it is clear where the FINE is to apply.

In order to make things much easier for the composer the next version of MuseScore should provide the feature of clicking on the note that you want the music to end on, and then dragging the Fine to that note. When the audio of the score is then played the music will stop after that note is sounded. This would be better than splitting measures to get the same effect.

In reply to by AIJohnsen

The standard according to the rules of music notation is for Fine to apply to end of the measure. The only situation I can think of where it is normally OK to put a Fine somewhere within a measure is for that very special case of accounting for a pickup, and in these cases it is also pretty standard to divide the measure with a dotted barline. If for some reason you don't wish that, and are comfortable with violating the normal rules of music notation, simply adjustment the position of the Fine manually, or placing the text as simple staff text, would work just fine.

In reply to by AIJohnsen

So the feature request would become something along these lines?

If Fine is dropped onto a measure, keep doing what we're doing now.
If Fine is dropped onto a note, have MuseScore automatically split the measure after that note, change the barline to a dotted one and add the Fine to the first of the newly split measures.

In reply to by AIJohnsen

As explained, the proper way to notate this *is* to split the measure at that point. You can program a computer to stop in the middle of a measure but human performers will follow the normal rules of notation, so you might as well notate it correctly to begin with. Traditionally you would show a dotted line for the barline, although probably that isn't universal. If you are absolutely positive the players reading your score will understand this non-traditional notation, simply mark the barline invisible.

In reply to by AIJohnsen

As Marc mentioned before, the measure needs to be split in order to get correct notation; which in itself will lead to correct playback.

The only thing you'd still have to do yourself for your apparent need is to click on that automatically created barline by the automatic measure split and turn it invisible.

All I proposed was to lessen the steps you'd have to perform to get both notation and playback correct.

In reply to by jeetee

I am transcribing a score with a Fine in the middle of a measure. (The piece concludes with a recap of the first 7+ measures). On the score there is a dotted barline.

To split the 3/4 measure would require some juggling due to the presence of a dotted minim at the start of the measure. On the first play through it's held as one voice, and on the second (final) time, it's played as a fermata. The other option is to use some voltas, which would complicate the display

Attachment Size
musescore -midmeasure Fine.png 16.29 KB

In reply to by bebobebo

I would also suggest a better way to notate this would have been to use a Coda so you have a more clear ending. I know if iI were the one trying to read that music, I'd certainly appreciate it - it's clearer and more standard and less likely to cause sight-reading errors as my brain has to process an awkward and unfamiliar idiom. In general, I recommend for people to not feel compelled to repeat the mistakes of the original engraver.

That said, if I absolutely was required to reproduce the given example, I'd just add the barline a a mid-measure barline and not worry that the playback wouldn't stop after the first note. Or, if someone challenged me to make the right playback happen anyhow, I'd try something like enter that chord as an eighth note but hide the flag and change the notehead, add the dot as a symbol, probably do various other adjustments. But the only motivation would to prove it can be done :-)

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I'm going to resurrect this old discussion just to point out that, in jazz lead sheets, big band scores, etc., it is very common to put a Fine on the final note in a second ending prior to the pickups, and in similar situations where part of a measure is to be skipped after the D.C. or D.S. I recognize that this is not normal engraving practice for...erm...'legit' scores, and that a coda or dotted line could be used for this -- but it's something we see a lot in the trenches, and it's quite clear to the performers. I don't see a strong argument for not supporting this in some way given that it's a common practice, albeit arguably an improper one.
second ending fine.jpg

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