confusion about 'break multi measure rest'

• May 16, 2014 - 08:41
Type
Functional
Severity
S5 - Suggestion
Status
won't fix
Project

The measure properties dialog allows to toggle 'Break multimeasure rest', it is not clear though whether this breaks the multimeasure rest before or after that measure.
It does break before, and I thing the text in the dialog should reflect this.
The handbook (now) mentions this, see http://musescore.org/en/handbook/measure-operations#Break-multi-measure…

This issue stems from a discussion in the German forum and an IRC Chat

Question is whether to change that text and into what. Something like "Break multimeasure rest at start of this measure" seems too long.


Comments

I think the existing English text is fine personally. The word "break" implies this option affects only passages in which the measure would otherwise have been part of an mmrest in the first place. A different verb like "start mmrest" would imply that setting this option could cause an mmrest that wouldn't otherwise have existed to be created. Sure, you could add clarification that the break is to occur at the beginning of the measure; do we then do the same for adding clefs, time signatures, key signatures, rehearsal marks, tempo marks, etc? There are two choices for where the break occurs, and I think we've picked the more logical one, but anyone who is surprised would surely figure this out in a matter of seconds (just as they do with clefs et al) and adjust their thinking accordingly?

FWIW, the real problem is that the attribute is attached to the measure when in a sense, it's *logically* attached to the barline that starts the measure. But I'm not saying we should change this; just pointing out that this is the source of the confusion.

EDIT: I should add that I tried to read the post in the German forum, but Google translate made nonsense out of it, and while I remember a fair amount of grammar from learning German in school, I retained essentially no vocabulary :-)

by that logic...: the barline that starts a measure, is part of the previous measure, as you'd find out when you drop a barline into a measure (exceptione being the begin repeat barline), or when you add a horizontal frame.
Elements that break MMrests (e.g. rests, that are not full measure rests; rehearsal marks, staff text) do so in the measure they get applied to, although you could argue that on an otherwise empty measure this attach to the beginning barline

Barlines are indeed a bit of a mess. Logically, each measure has two barlines - a start and end barline. And I would prefer independent control over these. Of course, since one measure's end is the next measure's start if both are on the same system, the control can't be completely independent - one will have to take precedence. Finale makes it so end barlines win on case of conflict. But if the measures are on separate systems, then you have full independent control. MuseScore for 2.0 simulats to this so e extent, well enough to handle the most important cases, but it's more complex than what I described.

Anyhow, point being, barlines are special and it's probably best not to think too much about their behvior when looking models for how others things should behave. But if MuseScore *were* to move to having the "break" option be attached to barlines, a simple a checkbox in Inspector would do the trick, and the advantage would be that it would be unambiguous. Still, I don't think it's worth it implememtation-wise (and re-training of existing users) just to avoid the minor momentary confusion that might exist.

Again, I say this not understand the discussion in the German forum. I get the sense he has a mor fundamental problem with mmrests? Sime special unsuaul thing he wants to do that just isn't possible, or a more basic misunderstanding of how the whole things works? Surely that whole discussion wasn't just about whether the break occurs with the measure start or measure end?

Status (old) active won't fix

No, the discussion wasn't mainly about break mm rests property of a measure. It started with him not wanting to have an mmrest in a pickup measure, and not knowing that you'd need to flag it as irregular to have it exluded from it.
It is now documented properly in the English handbook and was already in the German one, so let's rest this case.
Unless someone can come up with something better...