very confused between the .com site and the .org site
The first is subscription ok if you want to go that route certainly for professionals
The second is the free version for amateur enthusiasts - great
but getting a link to the right forum is a nightmare, surely the author can do better than that.
I must assume that the paid for download will have different features/problems than the free versions. so you dont want to be reading the wrong forum. They both look identical and you only know by looking at the url for the.com
Please clear up this mess. Both versions have their place so let them clearly identify which they are
Its no good looking at the new piano roll editor only to deduce that its for the paid version for example
Comments
As an end user I tried to give some suggestions (https://musescore.org/en/node/277874 ) based on the buttons on the different pages, for example https://help.musescore.com/hc/en-us
Suggestions and ideas are well received, but better to direct them to the correct site (.org/.com).
This has been highly debatted last summer.
They have made some changes to remove the confusion, but then undone them for ...? I don't know why.
For example the big search field on top of the .org site searches the .com site.
It doesn't help to remove the confusion.
In reply to This has been highly… by frfancha
But why does there have to be such confusion, pity the poor user
There us no paid-for version of the MuseScore desktop program, Windows, Mac, Linux.
There is a paid-for version of the mobile apps, iOS, Android, and there is a pro account on musescore.com to be able to share more than 5 files. If you pay for it, it's commercial so .com, else .org
I would state this as follows:
MuseScore - the open source notation software that runs on WIndow, macOS, and Linux, is free, period. There is no version of it that is not free. MuseScore itself is not a web site - it is software you run on your computer. The website where you can download that software is musescore.org, and that is also the site where you get support for that software via the Handbook, these forums, etc. That is where you are right now. This site is also completely free - there is nothing on it that requires or even offers the possibility of any kind of subscription (although there are links to other sites that do).
musescore.com is a website that allows you to upload and download scores. That website does have a subscription option, with both free and paid versions available.
There is no "paid for download", then. The software you download is always free, and it doesn't know or care if you have a subscription to musescore.com or not. There are no features in the MuseScore software itself that are only available to people who have paid subscriptions to musescore.com
Now, in addition to all this, there are mobile apps. Some of these might be free, some might be paid, some might involve subscriptions of their own, some might be tied to the subscription on musescore.com - but this too has nothing to do with the MuseScore notation software itself or with musescore.org, the free site where you download it and get support for it.
In reply to I would state this as… by Marc Sabatella
Well thanx for that - so why cant MS be clear and up front about this. I have no issue about encouraging a paid subscription - thats normal and justifiable for pros. If I were a pro user I would have no problem with $50 pa - bargain but I am just a hobbyist.
The rule in business is make it easy for customers to buy - dont confuse them we are simple souls - just want to make music and maybe share
In reply to Well thanx for that - so why… by 123bedford
I can't think of any place where anything is said on the site that would cause this to not be clear. Feel free to point to a specific piece of text on a specific page of a specific site if you feel the wording could be improved.
In reply to I can't think of any place… by Marc Sabatella
Well the most obvious place is the header of musescore.org (the blue rectangle on top of the home page). What does this header propose? A search on... musescore.com
In reply to Well the most obvious place… by frfancha
Indeed, that was 123bedford's quandary - upon searching, he kept getting sheet music.
See:
https://musescore.org/en/node/285903#comment-903161
and 123bedford's reply.
In reply to Well the most obvious place… by frfancha
Yes, but in no way does that constitute wording that in any way conflicts with anything I said. You don't generally learn about the policies, subscription, and payment options of products by inferring things from how search buttons work, you do it by reading actual text statements on the matter. The claim here is that somewhere, some text on some page says something that is in conflict with what I described. I'm asking, where is that text? The only text I see is 100% in agreement with everything I posted.
In reply to Yes, but in no way does that… by Marc Sabatella
Deceptive practices are not limited to text. Any attempt to reroute a user from an open source free experience, to paid subscription experience in a way that does not explicitly explain the transition, is deceptive and possibly fraudulent.
Vendors should be extremely wary of these practices. There should be obvious interface elements that explain when users are being redirected to a commercial venture, and why they are doing so.
In reply to I would state this as… by Marc Sabatella
Thank you for the explanation. Clear and helpful.
In reply to I would state this as… by Marc Sabatella
How independent are they from each other, aside from the name?
In reply to How independent are they… by lordlouckster
About as different as any two other branches of a single company, like Yamaha flutes and Yamaha motorcycles. I doubt there is anyone in the company involved with both. And if you have questions about their motorcycles, going to their flute website won’t really help much.
the only way you know is by the URL in the top window
Why have we got two different sites? Nobody has answered this
If they were the same site but with different domains - ok but they are different and have different domiciles
In reply to the only way you know is by… by 123bedford
It's been explained several times.
In reply to the only way you know is by… by 123bedford
It is not absolutely necessary to have two different sites, but having two sites for the goals explained by Marc helps to clarify and therefore is a good thing.
The issue is not having two sites, the issue is making clear on the front page what each of them is compared to the other one.
And agree, once you know it, this information is useless, but for newcomers it would help.
The issue is that there is no way to make newcomers to anything, especially on the web, understand something important. The general response to "Please read this ! It's really important!" is to click "OK" without reading. The history of MuseScore, the sale of the web site to UG, and the features of the site and the Application that are specially-tuned to each other giving the impression of a single, seamless thing are just too hard to explain to answer "why ISN'T it the same thing?" and "Why can't you guys have one web site?" is as meaningful and important as major religious schisms (Catholic vs Protestant, Shi`a vs Sunni, Mahayana vs Theravada Buddhism, etc.) are to people outside. It's a problem with human nature and the emulsifying power of the web, People who understand something that most people don't want to understand, or can't, are called "experts."
In reply to The issue is that there is… by [DELETED] 1831606
The "Musescore.com" site provides space for users, who want to upload more than five Musescore files, for a fee.
The "Musescore.org" site, offers the free Musescore software and gives free support to users with the forum.
That's all the difference.
The ".com" site is useless without the Musescore software.
Roughly: "These two are interconnected."
In reply to The "Musescore.com" site… by Ziya Mete Demircan
This is overly simple. They are run by two different organizations in different countries. Neither accepts bug reports for the other. One has a highly formalized, effective, and transparent bug reporting and tracking mechanism, and the other ..... "doesn't" (let's leave it at that). There's really very little difference between the United States and Canada -- people speak the same language, dress the same way, etc., but they are different countries under different governments.
In reply to This is overly simple. They… by [DELETED] 1831606
WOW this is really sectarian then like catholic and protestant Sunni and shiite
both share the same religion but are strictly and competitively partisan
holy moly batman - pity the humble musician
In reply to WOW this is really… by 123bedford
Now you're getting it! And it's "hard to explain in 140 characters", as we now say. One is a company trying to make a profit by whatever means are available to them, and the other is in it for the good of humanity, and they offer different things.
In reply to Now you're getting it! And… by [DELETED] 1831606
Well I accept the real world but WHY isnt this made clear to the newbie, eg make the org a different colour - not rocket science
I still havent found a reliable way to define a triad root note and its octave. so annoying when arbitrary inversions are applied
In reply to Well I accept the real world… by 123bedford
As I just said, "it can't be explained in 140 characters". There is no way to "collar" newbies and lecture them about this dichotomy and its historical roots and inversions, as it were. "MuseScore=MuseScore, what else do I have to know?". Do you know ANY site, or human activity, that makes it "clear to newbies" what the complexities are? A "newbie" is almost definitionally someone who has not yet mastered the subtleties and complexities of a subject. A different color won't do it (but it might help).
About triads. roots, and octaves, I am profoundly competent at traditional music theory, yet I do not know what you are attempting to say -- are you talking about a MuseScore problem or missing feature, or a problem in understanding or using traditional Western harmonic structures (which doesn't belong here)?
In reply to As I just said, "it can't be… by [DELETED] 1831606
(deleted)
In reply to As I just said, "it can't be… by [DELETED] 1831606
Well we all started out as newbies so be gentle with us yes it would definitely help , make it pink and call it Musescore Free. Surely thats not rocket science
You see even when you know the secret war its easy to click a disuised link that whips you over to .com version without you realising and you end up a blind alley having wasted you time - how nasty is that
I appreciate the Musescore ethic, highly commendable so why spoil it with this "£$£$%$%^
About triads etc, I had mind crumble pls ignore it refers to another s/w Harmony Navigator HN2 LE which is doing something really dumb
Player just want to make music - not struggle with painfully documented s/w
I use a DAW (Reason) - it is said that you have to work on it several hours/day for a year to become mid range competent. By the time you finish struggling your muse has evaporated. So many modern pseudo songsters use as a tool to hide zero musical talent
In reply to Well we all started out as… by 123bedford
This is not about two organizations offering competing versions of the same thing (the religious analogy falls short there), or at war with each other for whatever reason. One offers a software product, for free. The other offers score hosting (especially public visibility of your scores), 5 for free but more for pay, and makes money from ad clicks, not composer subscriptions, It's not MuseScore Free vs MuseScore Pay. They are not competitors; they are in different "businesses" offering different, non-intersecting things..
In reply to This is not about two… by [DELETED] 1831606
Well thats fine, so why not make it clear what the difference is pink and blue says it all
In reply to Well thats fine, so why not… by 123bedford
Not up to me or my choice of colors, but I find some merit in the idea.
In reply to Well thats fine, so why not… by 123bedford
As I said before, if you want to point to the specific text you find confusing, feel free to suggest ways of improving the wording.
In reply to This is overly simple. They… by [DELETED] 1831606
I am not in any position to speak for MuseScore, but I am pretty sure some of the statements here are not accurate. In particular, I am not sure where the idea that there are two different companies came from, but this is not the case. There is but one MuseScore company. It just happens to produce multiple products, some free, some not, and uses multiple websites. No different from most other companies in this regard.
In reply to I am not sure where you got… by Marc Sabatella
Then I am totally confused, too, and everything I said can be ignored, including my understanding and support for having separate websites. Those who say "what is this nonsense!?" are apparently correct. Do you report to a Russian boss?
In reply to Then I am totally confused,… by [DELETED] 1831606
Marc is not a MuseScore employee (as far as I know).
In reply to Then I am totally confused,… by [DELETED] 1831606
For the record, I am not an employee of the company, so I "report" to no one in that sense. As has always been the case since the very beginning, most of the developers and people who participate on the forum etc. are not employees, just people helping out as we can.
It doesn't particularly matter to me if the websites are separate or not, but if I were running the company, I would absolutely want separate sites for separate products. Just as, for example, Office365, OneDrive, and from Xbox each have their own websites even though all are Microsoft products, and there are free and paid products and services for each of these.
In reply to I am not sure where you got… by Marc Sabatella
It is MuseScore BVBA, based in Gent, Belgium in either case. Owned by (the same company that owns) Ultimate Guitar, Kaliningrad, Russia. As far as I understand...
In reply to It is MuseScore BVBA, based… by Jojo-Schmitz
Are any of the application developers employees? Why does Kaliningrad permit contributions to their product by people who are neither employees nor vetted by the corporation? In what sense is the development effort a subsidiary of UG? What control do they exercise over it?
In reply to Are any of the application… by [DELETED] 1831606
This is how open source has long worked - most developers are volunteers, maybe there is also a company that employs people to manage it. If a company were able to forbid people from contributing to the development, that's the exact opposite of open source. The folks managing the development - whether in Kaliningrad or France or Germany or wherever they may happen to have been over time - do indeed review contributions to be sure they are good. Again, exactly as pretty much every open source product anywhere works.
I can't really speak to the corporate structure of Ultimate Guitar, it really has little bearing on how MuseScore as open source software works or how any of us might interact with the various paid products the company offers. As a developer, I develop code, I submit pull requests, they get reviewed and either approved or not (sometimes approved after I make recommended changes). This is exactly as it has been since my first PR back in, hmm, 2012 (first "successful" one in 2013).
In reply to This is how open source has… by Marc Sabatella
So why does it say "Copyright Werner and others" if UG is the real owner of the product? Is it clear what "owner of the product" means?
In reply to So why does it say … by [DELETED] 1831606
Ownership of copyright in the source is different from ownership of the product, and no, unless you ask a more specific question, it isn't clear what "ownership of the product" actually means. In any case, specifics of the legalities are beyond anything I can speak to directly, and I don't see the relevance of this to any day to concerns over how anything actually works.
In reply to Ownership of copyright in… by Marc Sabatella
Fair enough.
A great product that persists in shooting itself in the foot much to the detriment of the poor musician
I give up
In reply to A great product that… by 123bedford
I can not find in the forums the idea of colors to differentiate the two sites.
For those who had not, at the time, read the news of the merger of the two teams ...
https://musescore.org/en/node/269605
http://blog.musescore.com/post/171048786232/ultimate-guitar-welcomes-mu…
Edit: found https://musescore.org/en/node/274883#comment-846988
Dodgy stuff going on here. Im in dot org site and want to leave some goof feed back so click the button top rhc and it jumps to the identical looking do com site WTF
same thing when i want to check my profile, it also jumps to do com site which seems to hold my profile detail
WILL SOMEONE GET OFF THE POT AND TELL ME WHATS GOING ON HERE
In reply to Dodgy stuff going on here. … by 123bedford
Which feedback button do you mean? The one on the MuseScore software itself? I don't see any such button on the musescore.org web site. The feedback form does happen to be on msuescore.com. Is there some particular problem you are experiencing with that? It should not affect your life in any way whatsoever which server they happen to place that page on.
As mentioned, by popular request, the same login does work for both sites, this is a good thing.
In reply to Which feedback button do you… by Marc Sabatella
iT DOES MATTER, THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE rival BUSINESSES
the fb button is on the MS worksheet
go do your homework
In reply to iT DOES MATTER, THEY ARE TWO… by 123bedford
I am not sure where you got the idea there are rival business involved. MuseScore is MuseScore, there is no rival. They just happen to have different websites for different products and services, much as many other companies with multiple products and serves do. I don't understand how this could possibly be considered any sort of problem. Can some explain in plain (and primarily lower case) English, how your life is negatively impacted by which server some particular web page happens to be stored on?
In reply to I am not sure where you got… by Marc Sabatella
EVERY DAY P....sorry, every day people post application problems in "Improving MuseScore.com", and require a careful explanation about the history of the company to understand why they are "in the wrong place". Yes, I understand that there could be two fora on the same web site, and the two sites are not the immediate problem. But the schism is.
In reply to EVERY DAY P....sorry, every… by [DELETED] 1831606
I agree, the fact that there is no obvious path from msuescore.com to the appropriate place to get help is an issue, and this is something I want to fix. But fixing it doesn't require fundamental changes to the structure of the sites, it just requires clearly placed and clearly worded help pages. So rather than focus on which site is which, let's just to continue to focus on particular cases where improvement is needed, and then we can focus on solving them without worrying about redesigning the entire world.
So far, we have:
1) need a more clear way to access help resources for the MuseScore software from the score sharing website
What else?
In reply to I agree, the fact that there… by Marc Sabatella
I would agree that:
2) The feedback form could be moved here (except if it is maybe also used for the mobile app?).
In reply to Dodgy stuff going on here. … by 123bedford
Your capslock key got stuck
In reply to Your capslock key got stuck by Jojo-Schmitz
I love MuseScore for what it has done for my students and for my own projects. I don't consider myself a newbie having worked with notation software since the Mark of the Unicorn days. My students are newbies, however. When schools shut down, I recommended that all of my students download MuseScore on their home computers. Not having noticed the .com/.org difference, several downloaded the mobile app and were frustrated that they had to pay to open MuseScore files that I had created for them. The problem is easily remedied but it would be better to make it easier for the new user to get it right on the first try. Thanks for this great app.
In reply to I love MuseScore for what it… by jnurdtcmt@comc…
Interesting, because I just now opened a browser, and started typing musescore...before I finished, it auto completed to "musescore download". The first entry opens to the software download page. I suspect they were on a phone or tablet.
In reply to Interesting, because I just… by bobjp
If in Google you type
MuseScore a
A first link appears at top for pro MuseScore.com app
In reply to If in Google you type… by frfancha
First hit on "MuseeScore" In Google gets me to musescore.org
In reply to I love MuseScore for what it… by jnurdtcmt@comc…
Make sure your directions to your pupils/students are clear enough to guide them to musescore.org.
Or make it a learning task, "find the MuseScore program and install on your PC".
Actually it seems you did, but still they downloadwd the mobile app to their mobile device, guess that should give them a bad mark for failing to follow their task?
In reply to Make sure your directions to… by Jojo-Schmitz
A bad mark? Which instruction did they not followed ? Between the one with an iPad who get a non free program called MuseScore and the one next to him with his MS-Surface who was lucky enough to get a free program also called MuseScore ?
In reply to A bad mark? Which… by frfancha
I recommended that all of my students download MuseScore on their home computers
Instruction should have been clearer though...
In reply to I recommended that all of my… by Jojo-Schmitz
FWIW, there are countless websites/web-hosted services that require downloading an app to use them, or use them fully. For someone not a computer expert, the idea that the MuseScore program and site have such a relationship is hardly crazy. Wikipedia has disambiguation pages. Google does not. To me, "Tesla lets employees go" means Kolman Czito, the inventor's lab assistant. Yes, there is a connection between the inventor and the company, but not the same as with "Ford". In our case, one didn't die 80 years ago. The difference between the two maybe-organizations, or Binity, or whatever it is, is something you only learn after a while. Each site should have HUGE banners declaring "THIS IS FRULARI STREET. IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR FROULARI STREET, THAT IS ON THE OTHER SIDE OF TOWN", as it were. Confusion is to be expected.
In reply to A bad mark? Which… by frfancha
"A bad mark? Which instruction did they not followed ? Between the one with an iPad who get a non free program called MuseScore and the one next to him with his MS-Surface who was lucky enough to get a free program also called MuseScore ?"
An ipad is a tablet. There is no MuseScore notation software for any tablet or phone.
A Surface is technically not a tablet. It runs a version of Windows 10. Therefore it can run notation software.
In reply to "A bad mark? Which… by bobjp
Indeed, home computer does not include mobile phones or iPads, strictly speaking. 'home PC' might have been the better term though
In reply to "A bad mark? Which… by bobjp
There is no MuseScore notation software for any tablet or phone.
Though not capable of editing scores, these apps are what confuse the unwary...
iPhone/iPad:
https://apps.apple.com/app/apple-store/id835731296#?platform=ipad
Android:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.musescore.playerlite&…
In reply to There is no MuseScore… by Jm6stringer
Still a task to solve by pupils/students ;-)
In reply to Still a task to solve by… by Jojo-Schmitz
I think you and I once decided we should never say "the MuseScore app" because of the bushiness of its meaning-tree; but that won't stop others from doing so and falling out of it.
In reply to I think you and I once… by [DELETED] 1831606
The term "PC" (personal computer) is getting antiquated. Literally, it certainly describes (smart)phones. There are phones, laptops, desktops, tablets --- they are all "personal computers". Maybe it means "that which can run Windows" as opposed to a Mac or Linux (exact same hardware in last case).
In reply to The term "PC" (personal… by [DELETED] 1831606
If I recall, PC used to mean Windows computer. The discussions were always about "PC vs Mac". Now we have 'Apps" which to me means "light weight software that runs on tablets, or phones".
In reply to If I recall, PC used to mean… by bobjp
It used to be the only personal computer there was, the IBM-compatible x86 ones running MS-DOS. There were Atari and others, Apple II, but it was not until the Mac came out that the term began to be restricted to x86 boxes (Mac ran on 68000 at that time). In the late 80's, Windows came out, and by the early 90's became the only way of using x86 boxes, as that hardware line evolved. Way later Macs moved to x86 hardware.
In reply to If I recall, PC used to mean… by bobjp
PC means Personal Computer, nothing else
The first computers called PC were not running Windows, which didn't exist back then.
In reply to PC means Personal Computer,… by Jojo-Schmitz
Ot.
For the nostalgic... have you seen the new commodore 64?
In reply to Ot. For the nostalgic… by Shoichi
@Shoichi no.
In reply to no. by [DELETED] 1831606
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPa9mWOSBPU
In reply to PC means Personal Computer,… by Jojo-Schmitz
.
In reply to I think you and I once… by [DELETED] 1831606
The term "App" indeed refers to the mobile apps (iOS and Android), not the (fully blown) Application on PCs (Windows, macOS, Linux)
After using both softwares, Musescore.org on MackBook and Musescore.com on iPad Pro for over 2 years, I realized they are not using same symbols. I have been scanning music and modifing music sheet by "org" software on Mackbook, and then uploaded it to ".org". Then, I downloaded the music sheet from "org" to iPad Pro for playing music.
In reply to After using both softwares,… by FujitaZ4
Uploads go to .com, not to .org, (so downloads come from .com.)
The desktop editing software is from .org and the tablet player apps are from .com.
They are maintained by different development teams and there are sometimes rendering differences.
In reply to Uploads go to .com, not to … by yonah_ag
And your scores will go to the .com site, where it's not the default to make them public domain unless you're very specific/careful. Been that way for years. I'm a bit over the complexity of trying to download what I would like to be public domain/no restrictions scores that are hundreds of years old and out of copyright, only to find people needed to pay for them on the .com site (which I think is Russian) because I didn't click numerous boxes.
Buying a subscription to the .com site sounds dangerous to your credit card...either through misunderstanding or rapacious credit card re-charging. I guess the lesson is, like for everywhere on the web: be EXTREMELY careful who you give your credit card details, or at least know how to cancel your card quickly LOL!
In reply to And your scores will go to… by Lofo
Buying a subscription to the .com site sounds dangerous to your credit card...either through misunderstanding or rapacious credit card re-charging.
Hmm... and then eleven days later this appears:
https://musescore.org/en/node/371703