Mordent symbol is wrong in MS 3.6
Just downloaded 3.6, and there is no mordent in the ornaments menu, instead there are two inverted mordents side by side. The one on the left is supposed to be a mordent, and the tooltip still says it's a mordent.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Screen Shot 2021-01-19 at 22.26.09.png | 15.74 KB |
Comments
Nope, not here. I guess you'd not using the default workspaces but a user modified one?
In reply to Nope, not here. I guess you… by Jojo-Schmitz
No, not that I recall. But even if it were modified, why would the wrong symbol appear with a wrong tooltip assigned to it? It's easy enough to delete the symbol and add the correct one. Just reporting what I find. Scores made in previous versions using the mordent do display properly with the new font applied. So no idea what went wrong with the palette.
In reply to No, not that I recall. But… by neo-barock
I have two instances of what I have all my life called "mordent", one tooltipped "mordent" and the other "inverted mordent". I am not using a goofy workspace (3.6, Mac). They both create mordents (high, low, high) in sound. There is a problem here.
In reply to I have two instances of what… by [DELETED] 1831606
And I know why that happens: SMuFL renamed it! See https://github.com/w3c/smufl/issues/119
MuseScore just followed it, when updating to SMuFL 1.3, see https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/6543.
Stiil the workspace should be correct and it is for me (after a fresh 'install' of a PortableApp, so not using any 'inherited' workspace from a previous version)
In reply to And I know why that happens:… by Jojo-Schmitz
"lower upper lower", which I call "inverted mordent", appears with the tooltip "short trill" under "More".
How can this be deconfused?
In reply to "lower upper lower", which I… by [DELETED] 1831606
See above. They switched in SMuFL 1.3, for some bizarre reason
In reply to See above. They switched in… by Jojo-Schmitz
I didn't ask how it got confused, I asked what we can do about it.
In reply to I didn't ask how it got… by [DELETED] 1831606
Factory reset? As said: I don't see it after a clean install
In reply to See above. They switched in… by Jojo-Schmitz
Oh, I see. Yes this was a huge discussion during the development of Dorico which I took a small part in. The symbol without the vertical line is correctly called a short trill or praller. The one with the line is a mordent. But, in a number of sources the symbols have been wrongly named, hence a lot of confusion over what the right names are. The Dorico team has done a very thorough job though. I trust they got it right.
In reply to Oh, I see. Yes this was a… by neo-barock
No need for factory reset. Just do this:
P.S. I am one of those persons who somewhere along the way learned incorrect names for these ornaments. I'm not alone, which is why MuseScore up until now has also used the wrong names, which I was continuing when reporting the problem. Clear as mud! :D
In reply to No need for factory reset… by neo-barock
Also an option of course.
In reply to "lower upper lower", which I… by [DELETED] 1831606
Just to be clear, the "short trill" is the "Praller", which when set to baroque playback (which should be the default for all ornaments in my opinion), properly results in "upper, written, upper, written".
In reply to Just to be clear, the "short… by neo-barock
I'd vote for that (default).
In reply to I'd vote for that (default). by [DELETED] 1831606
No way, we use the SMuFL names.
In reply to No way, we use the SMuFL… by Jojo-Schmitz
We're talking about playback. We always have to select our ornaments and change them to "baroque" instead of "default". We're saying, the "default" playback should be baroque.
In reply to We're talking about playback… by neo-barock
Yes (or at least customizable, or at least per score).
In reply to Yes. by [DELETED] 1831606
Ah, I see, sorry
See also #316273: 'Mordent' vs. 'Inverted mordent' vs. 'Short trill'
I had to improvise - I simply wrote 3 32nd notes
In reply to I had to improvise - I… by rainbow1_9
Can you explain what you mean? Are you saying you had trouble finding the mordent symbol? Did you read through the thread to understand what probably happened, and try the solution provided?
In reply to Can you explain what you… by Marc Sabatella
From what I gleaned from the comments, the mordent is there, but how it sounds on playback is incorrect.
In reply to From what I gleaned from the… by 2142Kitch
Then use a short trill instead
In reply to From what I gleaned from the… by 2142Kitch
What is actually happening is that for people who had customized workspaces, their modified palettes didn't pick up the change made to the international SMuFL standard regarding which mordent was which. So those people simply needed to update their custom workspaces.
Beyond that, it's also the case that different composers in different historical eras have used the same symbol to mean different things, and so you might in some cases need to workaround that if you are trying to use a symbol the way it was used by some particular composer. Sometimes the Inspector provides the necessary customization, somethings the Piano Roll Editor might help, other times simply adding two ornaments and hiding one but silencing the other works. In some cases, writing out the ornament yourself in an invisible voice or staff is best. Lots of possibilities depending on the specific situation.