In current 2.3 Beta ("2.2.10"), extensions can be installed through the Resource Manager. Once installed, however, the user cannot remove them. This is a necessary part of the feature for 2.3.
I'm not sure it is required now. What reasons?
One of the concerns is delay on Startup after installing packages. If you remove sfzs from Zerberus and set as default, you won't see the delay. Right now, you cannot remove language packs, so why do you need to remove installed extensions? And yes, you can go to docs and remove it there as well as you sometimes maybe remove sf2, sf3 soundfonts or scores.
It can be important in future when extensions can change the design of the application and maybe may contain some libraries to extend the MuseScore.
The slow startup from the SFZs is only one issue. Extra language packs are tiny and hidden—you only ever see one language at a time. By contrast, the SFZs, templates, and workspace are all obvious in their respective places in the interface, and cannot be hidden. For ordinary templates, sounds, and additional instruments.xml files, the user has to add them manually, so the user can remove them the same way. Plugins can be disabled. Changed shortcuts can be reset to their defaults. Any customization of the software should be undoable—if you download an extension just to check it out, you shouldn't be stuck with it forevermore.
Agreed. I've been very hesitant until the release of 2.3 to use SFZ files due to their large size. Now that I installed the MDL from the resource manager I regret it because it takes forever for MuseScore to now start on my computer.
@Jojo, I'm sure you expect correctly that I'm very capable of doing that now that I know, but the developers need to expect the average user to not even know how to access their operating system. There are too many people who don't know anything about their OS.
Users won't install MDL just because they are curious. If users know about the feature, they will use it. If they don't need MDL, they won't even know about the extensions and install them because of the experiment.
Users are not testers, so they don't need to install, uninstall, check again and again.
These are arguments for not deleting package files. Btw, personally I think it can be useful anyway, but I'm not sure about the UI.
The average user who does no testing is very unlikely to see this so you will probably never see a response from an average user. This means you will only do what you want without regard to what the users would like.
BTW, I did not say the average user doesn't know anything about the OS, but the developers need to work on the assumption the average user knows nothing about the OS. To many users, if you can't do it in MuseScore, it can't be done. There are many users who have to have operations on their OS explained so they can make MuseScore work correctly or do something they have not done before.
I am mostly an average user, though I do contribute to the issue tracker and use nightlies I consider stable enough that I will not lose my work. Which means, if I think the score will open in the next version, I will use the nightly. I generally don't test masters because the internal score may still change, but most version named nightlies (2.1, 2.3-dev...) will always open in future versions. I did not know that the Resource manager could be undone simply by deleting a directory. I actually moved it so I won't need to download it if I decide to use it in the future.
Isaac, Mike what would you expect if You deleted the extension? What to do with soundfonts loaded to synthesizer? What to do with instruments list? Should all these operations be undoable?
Moving/delete the MDL folder from MuseScore did not restore the instruments to their former state and I don't see anything that will allow for that. I noticed this because I use the Spanish translation to help with the translation of the Handbook. The MDL extension still exist in English, so I can tell which instruments were added. Without the SDZ files, the extended instruments are not very useful. The translation is not an issue.
Looking at the long term function of extensions, there may come a time when people may try to test out extensions much like they currently do plugins. The is at least a function that lets the user remove the plugin from the menu. Back to my point, at some point there may be extensions added the MuseScore that are undesirable to some people and they need to be able to be erased from ever having existed to avoid confusion in the future.
Currently, if someone such as myself but with less knowledge decides that the MDL is slowing down my computer and someone tells them to delete the folder to uninstall it they would expect all of the MDL to be deleted. At some point in the future they may ignorantly add an instrument from the MDL list and have different issues than they might have if the same instrument were not added from the MDL list since the SFZ files no longer exist in MuseScore.
Well, quick solution is just removing files and folders without recovering synth state. Complex solution is removing installed sfzs, instruments and so on... I will have a look what we can do.
@Anatoly-os: the careful/complex rollback in the end should be the target imho.
However, with 2.3 immanent; adding the quick & dirty "just remove the folders and files" solution is a minimal requirement. After all, it is exactly what we're telling people who want to remove the extension right now to do manually. Having it as a convenience button within MuseScore will prevent many questions on the forum.
Eventual issues related to "just deleting" stuff will have to be dealt with anyhow in the long run, so it is a moot argument for whether or not this function should be included on a minimal level.
I call myself both: As a tester and as an average user.
If I install an application I expect to have an easy way to uninstall it. The same way I expect for extensions in sense of user experience: to have an option to remove it inside the application without to delete the folder outside the application.
Just realized that we use Documents/MuseScore2/Scores folder as default path to save scores. So we assume that user is able to reach this place somehow. It is the same expertise reaching Scores folder and removing Extensions folder. Anyway, the patch is here.
Comments
I'm not sure it is required now. What reasons?
One of the concerns is delay on Startup after installing packages. If you remove sfzs from Zerberus and set as default, you won't see the delay. Right now, you cannot remove language packs, so why do you need to remove installed extensions? And yes, you can go to docs and remove it there as well as you sometimes maybe remove sf2, sf3 soundfonts or scores.
It can be important in future when extensions can change the design of the application and maybe may contain some libraries to extend the MuseScore.
The slow startup from the SFZs is only one issue. Extra language packs are tiny and hidden—you only ever see one language at a time. By contrast, the SFZs, templates, and workspace are all obvious in their respective places in the interface, and cannot be hidden. For ordinary templates, sounds, and additional instruments.xml files, the user has to add them manually, so the user can remove them the same way. Plugins can be disabled. Changed shortcuts can be reset to their defaults. Any customization of the software should be undoable—if you download an extension just to check it out, you shouldn't be stuck with it forevermore.
In reply to The slow startup from the… by Isaac Weiss
Agreed. I've been very hesitant until the release of 2.3 to use SFZ files due to their large size. Now that I installed the MDL from the resource manager I regret it because it takes forever for MuseScore to now start on my computer.
@mike320: just delete the MuseScore2/Extensions/MDL folder
In reply to @mike320: just delete the… by Jojo-Schmitz
@Jojo, I'm sure you expect correctly that I'm very capable of doing that now that I know, but the developers need to expect the average user to not even know how to access their operating system. There are too many people who don't know anything about their OS.
That's why there is this issue...
Users won't install MDL just because they are curious. If users know about the feature, they will use it. If they don't need MDL, they won't even know about the extensions and install them because of the experiment.
Users are not testers, so they don't need to install, uninstall, check again and again.
These are arguments for not deleting package files. Btw, personally I think it can be useful anyway, but I'm not sure about the UI.
In reply to @Jojo, I'm sure you expect… by mike320
Mark, how do you know? Do you have some information about MuseScore average users? Could you please share?
Well, I certainly did install it just because being curious... I'll never really need it, as I don't write for this kind of music
Hang out in the forums long enough and you'll see... Finding that directory and deleting it is too much for at least 30 % of the users
In reply to Hang out in the forums long… by Jojo-Schmitz
Again I want reactions for messages to react with :laughing:
In reply to Again I want reactions for… by Anatoly-os
The average user who does no testing is very unlikely to see this so you will probably never see a response from an average user. This means you will only do what you want without regard to what the users would like.
BTW, I did not say the average user doesn't know anything about the OS, but the developers need to work on the assumption the average user knows nothing about the OS. To many users, if you can't do it in MuseScore, it can't be done. There are many users who have to have operations on their OS explained so they can make MuseScore work correctly or do something they have not done before.
I am mostly an average user, though I do contribute to the issue tracker and use nightlies I consider stable enough that I will not lose my work. Which means, if I think the score will open in the next version, I will use the nightly. I generally don't test masters because the internal score may still change, but most version named nightlies (2.1, 2.3-dev...) will always open in future versions. I did not know that the Resource manager could be undone simply by deleting a directory. I actually moved it so I won't need to download it if I decide to use it in the future.
Isaac, Mike what would you expect if You deleted the extension? What to do with soundfonts loaded to synthesizer? What to do with instruments list? Should all these operations be undoable?
In reply to Isaac, Mike what would you… by Anatoly-os
The short answer is yes.
Moving/delete the MDL folder from MuseScore did not restore the instruments to their former state and I don't see anything that will allow for that. I noticed this because I use the Spanish translation to help with the translation of the Handbook. The MDL extension still exist in English, so I can tell which instruments were added. Without the SDZ files, the extended instruments are not very useful. The translation is not an issue.
Looking at the long term function of extensions, there may come a time when people may try to test out extensions much like they currently do plugins. The is at least a function that lets the user remove the plugin from the menu. Back to my point, at some point there may be extensions added the MuseScore that are undesirable to some people and they need to be able to be erased from ever having existed to avoid confusion in the future.
Currently, if someone such as myself but with less knowledge decides that the MDL is slowing down my computer and someone tells them to delete the folder to uninstall it they would expect all of the MDL to be deleted. At some point in the future they may ignorantly add an instrument from the MDL list and have different issues than they might have if the same instrument were not added from the MDL list since the SFZ files no longer exist in MuseScore.
Well, quick solution is just removing files and folders without recovering synth state. Complex solution is removing installed sfzs, instruments and so on... I will have a look what we can do.
FWIW, I agree it's very unfriendly to offer an install option with no uninstall.
In reply to Well, quick solution is just… by Anatoly-os
@Anatoly-os: the careful/complex rollback in the end should be the target imho.
However, with 2.3 immanent; adding the quick & dirty "just remove the folders and files" solution is a minimal requirement. After all, it is exactly what we're telling people who want to remove the extension right now to do manually. Having it as a convenience button within MuseScore will prevent many questions on the forum.
Eventual issues related to "just deleting" stuff will have to be dealt with anyhow in the long run, so it is a moot argument for whether or not this function should be included on a minimal level.
Also my two cents:
I call myself both: As a tester and as an average user.
If I install an application I expect to have an easy way to uninstall it. The same way I expect for extensions in sense of user experience: to have an option to remove it inside the application without to delete the folder outside the application.
See https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/3754.
Just realized that we use Documents/MuseScore2/Scores folder as default path to save scores. So we assume that user is able to reach this place somehow. It is the same expertise reaching Scores folder and removing Extensions folder. Anyway, the patch is here.
Fixed in branch 2.3, commit 925318e89c
fix #273558: Add a way to uninstall extensions
Fixed in branch 2.3, commit 7f024410aa
Merge pull request #3754 from lasconic/fix-273558
fix #273558: Add a way to uninstall extensions
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.