Automatic Placement

• Jul 17, 2019 - 16:15

Is there a simple way to disable ALL automatic placement? If there is, I can't find it. It is literally ruining my experience with Musescore.

Thank You.


I can help, but I'd like to first understand how it is getting in your way. It really should be helping you immeasurably, and I'm suspecting that you may be simply trying to do things in a way other than intended, such that if you learn the proper way to do whatever it is you are doing. If you attach a sample score and describe a specific thing you are trying to do that automatic placement is getting in the way of, I will help you see how to do it in a way that works better, not just with respect to automatic placement, but for other purposes as well (eg, to get best results if the score is viewed on a mobile device, if the font size changes, if parts are generated, etc).

EDIT: do be sure you're on 3.1 or later, which is far more flexible than earlier MuseScore 3 releases. You can generally move elements freely without disabling automatic placement, and it yet still gain the advantages of collision avoidance. If you want to create the occasional collision, simply press "=" before making the adjustment, or use Alt+drag to disable automatic placement while making the adjustment. You can also use the "S" (Set as style) button next to the "Minimum distance" setting in the Inspector to explicitly allow collisions for that element type, while continuing to enjoy the complete benefits for other elements.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Marc... let me preface my reply with I know you/your work for many many years. I know you're a good guy/man that has the best of intentions with the work you do.

If there's a second major frustration I have in the Musescore hemisphere, it's with this forum and quite frankly you at times. (no insult intended) Why is it when anyone asks for/about a global setting to remove automatic spacing, there's ALWAYS a inquisition as to why. Why is it not simple enough that some people either don't like it or want to use it on an as needed basis. (yes, you're just trying to help)

I realize that you and others are wanting to help and are assuming most of the folks that as a general feeling don't like the 'automatic' part of this feature don't know what they're doing.... it's almost like we have to see and understand what you and others see and understand... I have read ALL the threads on this subject, read all the arguments 'pro' this feature and... I, simply want to turn the thing off... what's the problem?

I simple don't like that it defaults to automatic and I have no control over that. So hard to understand? I don't wish to list all my reasons why nor upload docs for you/others to tell me what I'm doing wrong or what I could be doing... so I can come around to their way of thinking about it. I've been a Sib user for years and have killed their automatic (magnetic layout) feature from day one and have gotten along just fine.

If this global setting is not going to be implemented, I'd just rather hear it straight forward.

These are MY feelings. No one has to agree with them or think as I do... I simple ask the same.

Thank you.... again, nothing intended as an insult and very much appreciate you and your work.


In reply to by cmpan5

The option already was implemented, as you can see if you check the issue to which you responded some time ago. However, I would still rather help people understand how to work in a way where they don't need to make their life so much harder. Which is why I make the simple request that you describe the problem you are having in more detail, with an example, so I can assist you even better. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to be helped?

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thank you... would you mind informing me 'where' and 'how' from within the program it has "already been implemented?"

Marc, it's not that I don't want to be helped. When I need help I will ask. But the only help I'm asking for at this time is... LOL How to globally turn it off. My old mind can't find it... or how it's done.

Thanks again.

In reply to by cadiz1

Yes, of course I have... so how does that question tell me how to universally turn off Auto Placement?

But it doesn't have to... I found it through the shortcut keys... Why... such a simple thing could not be relayed to me with one simple sentence, I'll never know. What is it with 'forum' types who can't answer simple questions in plain simple English?

If someone had asked me the 'SIMPLE' question I've tried to get answered... I would have 'SIMPLY' said, "go to preferences, look for 'Toggle Automatic Placement Globally' and create a shortcut." DONE!... for G_d's Sake!

In reply to by cmpan5

I am happy to tell you why I didn't just offer that information right away: it's because I want to help the best way I possibly can, and will not settle for less.

If someone says to me, "I want to get to Harlem, would you please tell me how to find the "H" train", I won't do them the disservice of simply telling them how to find the "H" train and then sending them on their way to discover for themselves that it was not the right question to have asked. I will advise them that the "A" train is in fact the quickest way to get to Harlem, and then tell them how to find that train instead. I want them to achieve their actual goal.

The point being, sometimes a question people ask thinking the answer will be the most effective way to solve their problem turns out not to be. If you would do us the service of sharing a score and describing your use case, I'd still be more than happy to show you solutions I am quite convinced would be more useful than riding that "H" train and then having to workaround the fact that it actually wasn't the quickest way to get to Harlem after all.

Also, I note I did tell you the information was there in the issue thread you were already subscribed to.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Well Marc, that makes a whole lot of sense... so me asking a simple question of, "how to turn it off globally" is your interpretation of me asking where the "H TRAIN" is? Ok, so you know what's better for me, in the name of "helping me." Ok, how can I argue that? I can't.

And you didn't/couldn't simple tell me at that time how to do it because... it had been already answered in a thread I was subscribed to? How ridiculous. Wasn't it obvious that I had not remembered? LOL So you spend the sentence/time on telling me that, instead of just simply informing me? You people think too much... K.I.S.S. A simple answer would have avoided all this ridiculousness.

I'll officially close this thread because it obviously serves no further purpose... we agree to disagree...

In reply to by cmpan5

You can't close a thread, and you can't stop people from trying to help :-) You do have the right to refuse it, though.

Yes, to be frank, I do think it is quite likely that I know the software well enough to be aware of ways of using it that you might not. Without knowing more about you or your use case - again, a reason we ask for more information - it's impossible for me to know what your level of experience is or how automatic placement might be interfering with the things you have tried. But as one of the main developers over the past few years, I think it pretty fair to say I am one of the most knowledgeable, and I am always eager to help where I can.

Also, as bobjp points out, forum threads aren't just about the person who started them, but they exist for others reading to benefit from as well. As I would have been doing a disservice not just to you but to everyone else reading this thread now and in the future to offer the highest-quality help I possibly can. And in fact it still pains me that I'm not able to do that here. I really would like to see not just you but everyone who wants to get to Harlem to get on board the "A" train!

BTW, yes, I get that you didn't remember that the question had already been answered in thae issue thread, but I reminded you so you could go find the information there yourself.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

ok, I'll byte... my 'closing' the thread was my way of trying to end the conversation... so thanks for informing that "I can't close it" LOL

So I guess it's just not enough that I have no specifics attached to my question other than wanting to 'turning it off globally'? You, and others INSIST that I come up with 'reasons' for my request...because it's a 'pubic forum and you want/NEED to help me?... even when I stated I don't need and specific help.
ok... I obviously can't get my point across... so I surrender on this...

And BTW, "you get that I didn't remember." So instead of simple saying... "go to shortcuts"... you chose to teach me a lesson by reminding me so I could go find the info for myself... C'mon Marc... how utterly ridiculous! Thanks for wanting to teach me these lessons (for my own good) and learn for myself and what... make a better Musescore user out of me... yes Marc, that was/is helpful... c'mon...!

next... LOL

And consider that when you ask a question in a public forum, it's no longer just about you. For example, your original question was pretty much Greek to me. I have no idea what automatic placement is. Pretty sure I'm not alone. I think questions about why you want it turned off are legitimate in a public forum. That way i find out what it is and why I might want the same thing you do. Otherwise, only you benefit from some link I'm not likely to follow because I don't think I need whatever it is that I don't know about.(?)
As it turns out, I probably don't what it. I leave Magnetic Layout on in Sibelius. Even so, it doesn't always work.

In reply to by bobjp

Well 'bobjp', do you think 'others' in this "public forum' DO know what automatic placement is? I'm pretty sure that there were many many who did. Just look at the endless discussions regarding this.

So, it was "Greek to you, and you're pretty sure you are not alone". So don't respond or become involved. Let other who know respond... then you'll know about 'automatic placement. (I don't mean that in a snarky way)

And you think I HAVE TO explain myself as to why I don't like it? It's not good enough that I just don't like and don't find it useful when defaulting to automatic? I have to EXPLAIN myself to others satisfaction? Really?

1) How do you turn of the default automatic placement?
2) Here's how...
3) Thank you!

If I wanted to include/volunteer other or more info I would have... No reason of mine would have helped anyone learn anything other then.... I... SIMPLE... JUST.... DON'T... LIKE... IT... ON... DEFAULT... Why is that so so difficult for anyone to understand? Done!

In reply to by cmpan5

Well 'cmpan5', thanks for putting me/others in my/our place. Darn me/us for trying to learn something. You made it clear that you just want a simple answer, and don't care about anyone else. I get it. Just the facts, ma'am/sir. That's your prerogative. But maybe I could/might learn something from a little bit of explanation that would help me in my own use of MS. Why is that so hard to understand : ) No offence.

In reply to by bobjp

You're more than welcome bobjp... Shame you feel I tried to "put you in your place"...
You sound like a reasonably intelligent person...

What is you think you could/would learn from me wanting an answer to a simple question for NO OTHER/GENERALLY IMPORTANT reason then "KNOWING HOW TO TURN OFF" automatic placement?

You and others INSIST I give a reason so you can learn... ok, let ME help YOU... Let me drag out an answer/reason so I can stop all the tears.... Ok, I thought of one... A reason I want to be able to turn it off is...

I want to put things where I want to put them...! OK? Happy? Did that contribute to the community? Did YOU "learn something?" Are you better now at using Musescore? Wouldn't that have made a 'great, useful, productive, discussion?'

Do me a favor and stop all the tears and about ... "we just want to learn something". If someone simple asks a simple question... give a simple answer without all the lectures...

In reply to by cmpan5

You and others INSIST I give a reason so you can learn..
Yes, we do like to understand why people ask for a given feature. It gives insight in how they use the product and could lead to possibly another way or feature that could potentially be a better fit for their use case. Just as it could be that their reason is entirely valid and the request is indeed "The Best Way"(tm) to reach their goal.
But without information that use case remains unknown and a possible frustration for a future user.

I want to put things where I want to put them...!
The "funny" thing here is that automatic placement doesn't prevent you from doing that at all. So far, I've just now (you know, for statistical fun) went over some 20 topics with requests to disable automatic placement as provided by a web search for "turn off automatic placement musescore".
Out of all samples and use cases presented there (around 17 scores) the end result was that, once users set the style options they wanted, automatic placement had to be turned off for just a single element across all these cases.

The only other case where turning off automatic placement was "The Best Way"(tm) forward (not just according to us, but according to the user that had the request) was a user with experimental notation.
And that user got the same answer as you've already gotten; No, there currently is no global option to turn off automatic placement, but you can do it on an element by element basis. If you want to turn it off for an entire score; enter it, select all, and then turn it off; either using the Inspector or the shortcut (default =)

To pick up on another remark of yours
I simple don't like that it defaults to automatic and I have no control over that.
Why do you think you have no control here?
Yes, when two things collide, you don't decide where the 2nd one is moved to initially. But you can move it (or the first one) freely to manually change how the collision is resolved. Which is just as much effort as if the collision would've remained there.
Well, expect that if the collision was there, it would be extra effort to select the "lower" element in the collision.

...and I have no control over that.
You still have control over the default style options, just like in MuseScore 2. Automatic collision avoidance only comes into play once the results of these options lead to a collision in the entered score.

But yes, ranting against developers because they gave you the answer you're looking for in the first reply (or at least in the EDIT of it) and are trying to understand your use case so future users with a similar use case might not have to experience your frustrations seems the sensible path...

Do you still have an unanswered question? Please log in first to post your question.