Tuplets should use the note value that exceeds the replaced note value with as little as possible, e.g. quarter notes in a quadruplet on a dotted half note; as it is now MuseScore uses eighth notes in this case.
If the time signature is 6/8 then MuseScore uses a 4:6 relation. If the time signature is 3/4 then MuseScore uses a 4:3 relation.
Is there a reference source for whether a 4:3 tuplet should be used instead of a 4:6 tuplet in 6/8 time signatures? I am not familiar with the intricacies of some of the less common tuplets.
I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean, David, but if you in 3/4 time want to have 4 equal notes filling the whole bar they are recommended to be quarter notes. If you in 6/8 time want to have 4 equal notes filling the whole bar they are recommended to be quarter notes grouped in 2 duols or -- less recommended -- 1 quadruplet. Reference litterature on this is e.g. Paul Hindemith: Elementary training for musicians, and Börje Tyboni: Noter.
If you are subdividing the 6/8 by two dotted quarters (two triplet groups), then duple eighths 2:3 (or a full quadruplet of eights 4:6) makes sense. If you are subdividing 6/8 by three quarternote beats, then 4:3 quarternotes makes sense.
Since the purpose of 6/8, 9/8, etc. (unless you are composing a hemiola effect) is to have a triplet eighth feel, it makes sense to keep the default subdivision as 4:6 eighthnotes.
Save 4:3 for 3/4, or in special cases where the composer is illustrating a 3/4 hemiola over 6/8 time.
6/8 is not only for triplet eighth feel - Salsa (which in my opinion is completely based on hemiola) uses 6/8 in an individual way, not related to swing.
regards.
In the r.2047 MuseScore seems to follow Magnus Johnson's proposal (a dotted half note always divides into a 4 quadruplet quarters). However the literature I found seems to match Raymond May Jr's suggestion instead.
"Accessory numerals indicate a reduction of true note values expect in the case of figures resulting from dividing dotted time units into duplets or quadruplets and using the numerals a substitutes for time dots. In such instances the notes of division are actually increased in value." (Anthony Donato, Preparing Music Manuscript (Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice-Hall, Inc., 1963), 35.
Magnus, if your literature disputes this could you include the quote, or better yet a scanned image (if it includes images).
Look up Paul Hindemith: Elementary training for musicians, and see attached image of Fryderyk Chopin's Waltz opus 64:1 where you may also notice the triplet "3" in the first bar being placed on the opposite side of the stems to avoid mixing with the fingering.
Magnus, the Chopin is in 3/4 so it conforms to the reference I cited. I was interested in tuplets in compound meters such as 6/8. It turns out Wikipedia references this exact issue: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuplet#Triplet_notation
Anyway it looks like the issue (as originally posted) is fixed.
The citation in Wikipedia actually contradicts somewhat with your account in comment 3 since it recommends eighth notes instead of quarters in one instance: "Thus, two duplet eighth notes (most often used in 6/8 meter) take the time normally totaled by three eighth notes, equal to a dotted quarter note."
Maybe they are more personal preference / recommendations rather than strict rules.
In the end, it does come down to personal preference and what sort of rhythm or hemolia effect you are trying to get across. If you stick to Hindemith's rules for every example, you run into headaches in compound meters and odd time signatures or division of the beat.
Particularly French and Russian publishers often use eighth notes instead of quarter notes for quadruplets in both 3/4 and 6/8 time, so if you want to keep that tradition alive you should settle for eighth notes in such circumstances.
Comments
If the time signature is 6/8 then MuseScore uses a 4:6 relation. If the time signature is 3/4 then MuseScore uses a 4:3 relation.
Is there a reference source for whether a 4:3 tuplet should be used instead of a 4:6 tuplet in 6/8 time signatures? I am not familiar with the intricacies of some of the less common tuplets.
I am not sure I understand exactly what you mean, David, but if you in 3/4 time want to have 4 equal notes filling the whole bar they are recommended to be quarter notes. If you in 6/8 time want to have 4 equal notes filling the whole bar they are recommended to be quarter notes grouped in 2 duols or -- less recommended -- 1 quadruplet. Reference litterature on this is e.g. Paul Hindemith: Elementary training for musicians, and Börje Tyboni: Noter.
If you are subdividing the 6/8 by two dotted quarters (two triplet groups), then duple eighths 2:3 (or a full quadruplet of eights 4:6) makes sense. If you are subdividing 6/8 by three quarternote beats, then 4:3 quarternotes makes sense.
Since the purpose of 6/8, 9/8, etc. (unless you are composing a hemiola effect) is to have a triplet eighth feel, it makes sense to keep the default subdivision as 4:6 eighthnotes.
Save 4:3 for 3/4, or in special cases where the composer is illustrating a 3/4 hemiola over 6/8 time.
My 2 cents.
Hello Raymond.
6/8 is not only for triplet eighth feel - Salsa (which in my opinion is completely based on hemiola) uses 6/8 in an individual way, not related to swing.
regards.
In the r.2047 MuseScore seems to follow Magnus Johnson's proposal (a dotted half note always divides into a 4 quadruplet quarters). However the literature I found seems to match Raymond May Jr's suggestion instead.
"Accessory numerals indicate a reduction of true note values expect in the case of figures resulting from dividing dotted time units into duplets or quadruplets and using the numerals a substitutes for time dots. In such instances the notes of division are actually increased in value." (Anthony Donato, Preparing Music Manuscript (Englewood Cliffs, New Jersey: Prentice-Hall, Inc., 1963), 35.
Magnus, if your literature disputes this could you include the quote, or better yet a scanned image (if it includes images).
Look up Paul Hindemith: Elementary training for musicians, and see attached image of Fryderyk Chopin's Waltz opus 64:1 where you may also notice the triplet "3" in the first bar being placed on the opposite side of the stems to avoid mixing with the fingering.
Magnus, the Chopin is in 3/4 so it conforms to the reference I cited. I was interested in tuplets in compound meters such as 6/8. It turns out Wikipedia references this exact issue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuplet#Triplet_notation
Anyway it looks like the issue (as originally posted) is fixed.
In comment #3 I gave an account of writing 4 equal notes filling up a 6/8 bar.
The citation in Wikipedia actually contradicts somewhat with your account in comment 3 since it recommends eighth notes instead of quarters in one instance: "Thus, two duplet eighth notes (most often used in 6/8 meter) take the time normally totaled by three eighth notes, equal to a dotted quarter note."
Maybe they are more personal preference / recommendations rather than strict rules.
In the end, it does come down to personal preference and what sort of rhythm or hemolia effect you are trying to get across. If you stick to Hindemith's rules for every example, you run into headaches in compound meters and odd time signatures or division of the beat.
Particularly French and Russian publishers often use eighth notes instead of quarter notes for quadruplets in both 3/4 and 6/8 time, so if you want to keep that tradition alive you should settle for eighth notes in such circumstances.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.