Applying Alla Breve time signature symbol inserts nominal 4/4 time signature

• Jan 20, 2012 - 11:53

1. Create New Score
2. Enter 2/2 time signature in create score dialogue
3. Drag Cut Time/Alla Breve symbol to start of piece.

Result: A nominal time signature of 4/4 is inserted
Expected Result: A nominal time signature of 2/2 should be maintained.

Windows XP Pro SP3/MuseScore 1.1



I don't think I can reproduce on 1.1 or 2.0 Nightly Build (5233) - Mac 10.6.8.

Marked critical as it could represent a corruption.

I can verify that any measure that is ostensibly in cut time shows up as 4/4 in the measure properties "nominal duration" on my system (1.1, Vista). Doesn't matter if the score was created as 2/2 or 4/4 or even 3/4 - if you drag a cut time symbol to the score, all measures in that scope show as 4/4. Doesn't seem to actually have any ill effects, but it is surprising.

Status (old) closed active

Well, it seems back, dragging a cut time symbol into a measure does change the measure's properties to 2/2, but this does not survive a save, close, (re-)open, then it is back to 4/4.
Same with a self created 2/2 time sig.


For me, you don't even have to save & reopen - measure properties don't update right away unless you happen to be changing the first measure of the score.

1) new score
2) drag cut time to measure 4
3) measure 5, measure properties

Result: actual duration reports as 4/4

But unless there is demonstrated corruption or other problem that results, this is not critical. 4/4 and 2/2 are identical in terms of actual durations, so it's pretty unlikely that this is going to cause any actual problems. but you never know.

agreed, it is not critical. And yes, I tried on 1st measure only...
On the other hand 6/8 and 3/4 is the same in terms of actual durations too and they do store properly.
2/2 and 4/4 are different in terms of the metronome (or the conductor's moves), if I'm not mistaken?

Definitely not critical, although for some reason in the past Chen thought it was and I didn't spot his change to the status.

2/2 and 4/4 are NOT the same.

2/2 is two minims to the bar and conducted in 2
4/4 is four crotchets to the bar and conducted in 4

Right, not the same in how we conduct it, but in terms of internal representation in MuseScore, they work out to the same thing - the measure is 480 * 4 = 1920 ticks long. As far as I know, there are no differences in terms of the actual behavior of MuseScore. You can set the beaming properties for 4/4 and 2/2 differently, but it appears this works, and it survives save/reload.

Which isn't to say this shouldn't be fixed if convenient; I'm just try to assess the likely risk of not fixing it. If there was a more significant internal difference between 2/2 and 4/4, I'd be more worried that something might go around as a result.


Just found out that changes between alla breve and 4/4 don#t propagate between parts and score.
Not exactly corruption or loss of information, but not a minor issue anymore either?

Not minor indeed. Took me minute to figure out how to reproduce; this few things I tried worked fine. I think it might actually be related to mmrests and not to parts per se. Here are the steps I found:

1) new score, 4/4
2) file / parts
3) new all
4) drag cut time to first measure
5) view part

Result: it's still in 4/4, whereas it should of course be cut time

6) "M" to disable mmrests

Result: now it's cut time

You can also reproduce this without parts:

1) new score, 4/4
2) drag cut time to first measure
3) "M" - at this point, it seems to have worked (it shows cut time with mmrests)
4) "M" again
5) drag 4/4 to first measure
6) "M" - now it's *still* cut time, whereas it should be 4/4
7) "M" - back to cut time

Status (old) active needs info

It does for me. I followed the first set of steps in #14 above, which worked for both score and parts, then saved and reloaded, and it was still correct in both score and parts.

Can you post steps to reproduce the problem you are still seeing?

Status (old) needs info active

I took an existing score, that had cut time timesig (but 4/4 measure properties), with parts.
Dragged cut time to the first measure, verified it was 2/2 in one random measure in score and one rndo measrue in a part, saved, closed, opened,and checked again: all 4/4 again

Or: create new score, 4/4, no need for parts
Change to cut time, safe, close, open -> 4/4

Oh, so you're just talking about measure properties? The actual bug with cut time not surviving save/reload at all, or propagating to parts, is gone, right?


OK, in which case I'm downgrading this to "minor" again, unless there are any cases where there any actual ill effects beyond Measure Properties displaying a simplified version of the time signature.

There are a whole bunch of different aspects to this - in the future, when re-opening an issue like this, could you please be more specific about what doesn't work?

I took "original" to mean, the steps listed in the original issue report. Those work fine for me - changing from 2/.2 to the "cut time" symbol still shows 2./2 in Measure Properties. I then saved the score and reloaded. Still shows 2/2. So that much seems fixed. Furthermore, creating a 4/4 score and then changing it it to cut time shows 2/2 in Measure Properties.

However, while that last act does not survive a save/reload. Also, if I create a new *4/4* score, then drag the cut time symbol to a measure *other* than the first, then Measure Properties shows 4/4 even before the save/reload.

I took an existing score, that had cut time timesig (but 4/4 measure properties), with parts.
Dragged cut time to the first measure, verified it was 2/2 in one random measure in score and one random measure in a part, saved, closed, opened,and checked again: all 4/4 again

Neither can I when creating a new score using 2/2. 2/2, cut time, 4/4, they all show the correct measure properties even after a save/reload. However, Marc's last comment is true about starting with 4/4.

There are apparently several bugs in the code which produce the observed behaviour.
Hope i catched all/most of them :-)

Status (old) fixed active

unfortunalty not, the problem with my existing score where the change to cut time does not persists accross change, save, close, open still exists