Note Input: Sharp/Flat/Etc in Note Entry is disabled now in 3.3

• Nov 21, 2019 - 21:22
Reported version
S3 - Major
by design

In 3.2.3, the user can insert a note into score, and then add accidental by using the [Note Input: #/b etc commands] from this list:

MS3.3.2 Note Input.png

That is, in 3.2.3:
1) Press 'N'
2) Insert A
3) Use the sharp command from the list there after giving it a shortcut
Result: Works

Apparently someone in 3.3 decided not to allow or removed it by accident this ability while in Note-Entry mode. It now is only (in 3.3.2) a command to select accidentals before the note is inserted while in note-entry, or effective only after note-entry with regular selection, which also works in 3.2.3.. Is this by design?

Being used to adding accidentals while in note-entry post-entry of diatonic notes without having to change semi-tones by using up and down arrows, all this does is prohibit a certain style of workflow, and by this user is considered a retrograde bug rather than a benefit to anyone.

So the bug seems to be: retrograde: Note-Entry doesn't allow for changing the accidental by the commands which did once do so in 3.2.3 and earlier.

Will stick with earlier version for now due to this being integral to my activity in MS.


Status active by design

It was decided to make accidentals apply to the next note entered rather than the previous note. Though this is a major disruption in my own workflow that I'm having to relearn, the logic behind it is solid and has been often requested. Now, when you enter an A#, (select a sharp then enter an A) you hear an A# rather than an A for the note then you must add the sharp to it.

This applies to all accidental input methods while in note input mode with the exception of double clicking a palette item. I have shortcuts assigned to the accidentals and I'm getting used to selecting the accidental then entering the note.

In reply to by mike320

And it doesn't add any last in term of number of keys, even if you prefer to "add the sharp" after the note, as up & down arrows do the job in one key press.
Before this enhancement, you were "forced" to hear the incorrect note before the correct one and that was pretty annoying.

In reply to by frfancha

When transcribing, I usually have sound muted until finished, so that isn't a problem for me. And from my current perspective, using semi-tones of up and down is a weird way of thinking rather than "give this note an explicit natural sign" or any other accidental.

So it seems, if I want to maintain my workflow developed while utilizing the previous versions of Musescore, I have either to exit note-entry to use the same shortcuts that I once used in the same manner, or utilize semi-tone shifting which neglects explicit natural accidentals. Seems like if I continue with the updates, I'll be forced to change how I input notes.

With that in mind, It wouldn't hurt the developers to put some extra commands in the shortcut list that operate as they once did: "applying" accidentals. Instead of only taking the same shortcut names and learning that they don't operate as before, providing another set as a means of application like how they used to operate while in note-entry would have been decent of them. Maybe that can be a feature request? At least that's my two-cents.

In reply to by frfancha

To Frfancha: Nice observation. Although, what of the augmentation dot? One ought to activate augmentation before entering a note, yet it is positioned after a note on paper. Is this to be seen as unnatural? Then again, alternative methods were provided after a few complaints/user observations by allowing for the default Shift+Q/W commands. Something similar could be granted to users that would allow for how it used to be: an 'alteration' rather than a 'preparation', and the user could choose to use whichever one was pleasant to their workflow.

In reply to by frfancha

But when one is vocalising note names, which seems to be what I do when I am notating, one says A flat or D sharp or B natural, in that order, rather than flat A, sharp D, natural B.

Although I see the logic, I am finding pre-fixing accidentals hard to come to terms with. Is that just because it is different from what I have become used to? Possibly, but analysing what I think is in my mind as I enter notes, as I said earlier, I tend to vocalise the note names.

The shift Q/W commands were actually part of a bug fix in the Q/W commands. The dots were being ignored by these commands so someone added the shift versions while fixing the original ones, but they do make for a more natural workflow as you suggest.

In reply to by mike320

[As an Aside]:

From my selfish point of view, Shift+Q/W allowed more for post-placement of augmentation rather than fixing a bug, since I didn't really encounter that particular problem personally.

When I asked here a long time ago (2016) about not understanding why I could change duration of a note after entering a note, but then couldn't place a dot afterwards (thinking that a dot should be seen as duration change also) [], Marc showed me that I was doing it wrong, and that all duration and all augmentation were supposed to be selected before a note was placed, and so I tried changing my workflow. That was before the Shift+Q/W thing was implemented, and then by the time Shift+Q/W came along, I was already used to selecting dots beforehand, so I didn't really make use of it.

In reply to by worldwideweary

Now that it is understood that it is by design to disable the ability to apply an accidental while in note-entry, I'd like to feature request another set of commands that provide the means to "alter" accidentals while in Note-Entry. Should I start a new thread as suggestion, or would this still be the right place to continue the request?

In reply to by worldwideweary

I'm repeating myself here from the other feature request issue that was made, but for a good reason just in case someone only reads this thread:

Another "crucial" reason to include the old functionality or to 'knock' the new way is that when building chords, Musescore allows for using "add intervals" rather than add "A-G". So, the user can insert a C and then for example use the shortcut for "Add 3rd" and will get an E. The problem here is that if the user inserts the C, then "sharpens", but then uses the "Add 3rd", the third won't get the sharp! And the user has no way to add the sharp afterwards while in note-entry! The old way did allow for this of course by sharpening afterwards quickly. So he who uses interval chord building in this regard is out of luck as it currently is in 3.3.2.