Piano Roll Editor — Length property
MuseScore's Piano Roll Editor (PRE) has a Length property we can set per note.
I have a few questions about the PRE Length property:
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The PRE>Length seems to be an undocumented upper limit of 2000. Is that correct? If so, why?
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Is there a way to graphically change the Length property, ideally by dragging the right side of a PRE note? The handbook does not mention such an option and my experiments with control key produced no success.
My goal:
- to write finger-picking notation in it's simplest form: for example, in 4/4 eight writing 8th notes per measure.
- to employ a function to extend the play durations (like Length) beyond the note's face value, to replicate the way guitarists interpret durations when reading, in order to produce realistic sounding "interpreted" playback in MuseScore.
Thanks!
scorster
Comments
I've created graphical representations that illustrate the extended play durations I hope to achieve, without changing the face values of notes. And I've indicated those play durations with blue-green rectangles in the illustrations below.
In the first example the durations sound with strict adherence to the note face values—which is not a "guitaristic" nor a particularly musical result, and it's why I would like the option to extend them (and do so without necessarily using separate voices, which can lead to notation that looks unnecessary complicated to there reader.
In the following examples I've extended various durations, culminating in the last line where all notes ring until sounded again or until the guitarist would intentionally release them.
To facilitate realistic guitar playback in MuseScore I'd like to see manual (or automatic!) options for creating these play durations (as previously stated, without changing the face value of the notes.)
Other applications have this capability. It would be great to see it in MuseScore!
scorster
In reply to Here's a graphical… by scorster
Workaround (Not a real one but like its simulation):
If you use the "let-ring" option in the "Lines" palette, you can get a similar sound without dealing with individual notes.
I know this is not exactly what you wanted.
You suggest something, and I'm showing something completely different.
But at least it will have a similar effect. // And of course, it is not possible to extend the duration of notes (as you describe it) between two measures using this feature.
If you don't want these lines to appear in the sheet, you can select them all and make them hidden after you're done.
Until the feature you want is included in the software, maybe you can use this feature temporarily.
I attached two scores that sound exactly the same when played.
In reply to Workaround (Not a real one… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Ziya wrote > Workaround (Not a real one but like its simulation):
If you use the "let-ring" option in the "Lines" palette, you can get a similar sound without dealing with individual notes.I know this is not exactly what you wanted. You suggest something, and I'm showing something completely different.
But at least it will have a similar effect.
Hi Ziya,
What a wonderful explanation on your workaround!
Likely "Let-Ring" will not always produce the exact durations I'd need. Therefore it would be great if MuseScore offers a way to "realize" the durations into the score durations themselves, then I could edit the remainder manually, all the while leaving face values unchanged.
I'll look at your scores and plan to report back.
scorster
In reply to Workaround (Not a real one… by Ziya Mete Demircan
P.S. Does anyone know how to properly quote posts in Markdown?
The > character should suffice as a blockquote, but does not. (Sorry if you've previously seen me post a similar inquiry.)
scorster
In reply to Workaround (Not a real one… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Ziay,
Your example scores sound lovely!
However I can't tell if there's much difference between sustain and let-ring. As you know, sustain and simple extended durations don't always impart the sound that a guitar would.
This discussion and example file well describe ways in which let-ring is unguitaristic.
Thanks again for your input on this discussion.
scorster
In reply to Ziay, Your example scores… by scorster
YEs, the current "let-ring" works like a simple sustain-pedal.
Instead of putting there the "Ped ..." or "| ___" line for a piano that guitarists are not familiar with, it makes sense to use the usual "let-ring ---" line.
If the coding had been calculated taking the TAB-staff into account, a calculation would have to be made since when another fret on the same string is pressed, the sustained note on the old fret must be stopped. And if it were made that way, a single ring would be enough for a piece or section.
This is the current material we have for now :)
In reply to Ziay, Your example scores… by scorster
> Yes, the current "let-ring" works like a simple sustain-pedal.
> Instead of putting there the "Ped ..." or "| ___" line for a piano that guitarists are not familiar with, it makes sense to use the usual "let-ring ---" line.
I'd read something about Let Ring extending durations by x beats, so I thought perhaps it was different than sustain, though similar.
> If the coding had been calculated taking the TAB-staff into account, a calculation would have to be made since when another fret on the same string is pressed, the sustained note on the old fret must be stopped. And if it were made that way, a single ring would be enough for a piece or section.
I had EXACTLY the same thought.
The Tablature staff clearly indicates string assignments and MuseScore could use that information to disallow overlapping durations of scalar "same string" notes.
This would sound believable guitar "interpretation" in many cases, but my spidey sense says there would be plenty of instances where all notes in a measure should sustain ... except one, for instance where the guitarist would release to avoid a 2nd interval clash, or some such. Or where a group of chord tones are released while one or more sustained notes ring into the next measure.
Sadly sustain is an awkward tool for producing guitarism in playback.
I'd like to see something where one could "realize" Let-Ring as the play duration of a notes (of course, without changing their face value). Then the user could quickly find any undesirable play durations and adjusting their tails in the PRE—a feature we currently do not have. And this will only work when we're no longer limited to a Length max value of 2000.
I wonder if there's cause to define the needs and goals from scratch rather than modifying Musecore's builtin Let-Ring.
scorster
In reply to > Yes, the current "let-ring… by scorster
"I wonder if there's cause to define the needs and goals from scratch rather than modifying Let-Ring."
This would be really nice to see.
Until then I'll stick with my plugin. It can be applied to individual notes in a voice or a range of notes in the bass voice.
To workaround the 2000 limit I use tied, hidden notes for the playback.
Yes, it is limited to 2000. I have a plugin to change length without using the PRE but this also gets limited to 2000 by the plugin API. It would be so useful if this limit was increased. Discussion on this is here:
https://musescore.org/en/node/307796
Let Ring may help but has some quirks so I don't use it.
See https://musescore.org/en/node/286670
I also hand tweaked some guitar soundfont files to increase their sustain which does make a difference.
In reply to Yes, it is limited to 2000… by yonah_ag
The attached score file was derived by "patching" the len element values of the four notes in the MSCx file to 8000, 3000, 2000, and (explicitly) the default, 1000. The result is seen in the PRE like this:
I note that in the PRE, if we set the value edit to Duration (multiplier), and click on any of these notes, their actual relative play durations (relative to 1000) will appear in the edit field, including values up to 8000 (although not all of that fits in the field window).
This exercise seems to indicate that the program and the score file structure can in fact handle notes with play durations greater then 2000/1000, and the limit is only one imposed at the user interface.
Best regards,
Doug
In reply to The attached score file was… by Doug Kerr
This thread confirms it: https://musescore.org/en/node/307796
Maybe it just needs an issue ticket to be raised. I'll do that.
In reply to The attached score file was… by Doug Kerr
Issue raised: https://musescore.org/en/node/310921
In reply to Issue raised: https:/… by yonah_ag
Better to identify it as #310921: Increase limit of note Offtime in PRE and Plugin API (type [#310921])
In reply to Better to identify it as … by mike320
Thanks, that's much better.