Visiblity of systemic barline not saved

I don't think that Debugger operations are 'supported'. I believe the debugger to be an interim tool during development and is to be removed for final release, as it was the case for previous versions.

In fact, I think visiblity for system bar line is not supported. Probably, until this is true, the possiblity to hide it should be inhibited.

Comments?

M.

Well, without the debugger this is possibilty would be hidden. in 2.0 Beta 1 though the Debugger is still available (and in the nightlies too).
In 2.0 Beta 1 it is possible to toggle visibilty via the Inspector, but in the current nightlies it is no longer, it can still get selected (and tunrs blue) but the Inspector remains blank.

I think a) it should show up in Inspector and b) it should be possiblt to set it invisble.

The problem is that the initial system barline is not a "real" element - it is created on the fly depending on where you line breaks happen to be. Same with brackets and instrument names. So really, it probably should not be possible to act on these elements directly in the first place.

However. Miwarre has a current PR to make the system initial barline style a measure property, so it does become permanent. It will be possible to set the system barline style using the barline palette, although what you are really doing is setting a corresponding measure property, so you'll only see that barline style if this measure happens to start a system. For the intended purpose, this is exactly what would be desired.

I'm not understanding the intended purpose of making individual initial barlines invisible, though. If you want to do it globally for the score, there is a style option for that. Ifps there something soecial about one particular *system* that would cause someone to want to make its initial barline invisible? Or is it perhaps really something about one particular *measure* that just happens to start a system (in which case, the existing PR could be a starting point)? Or is it just a general desire for this to work somehow but without an actual use case where it matters *how* it works? Or perhaps the initial request simply came about because someone didn't know about the stype option (this seems to be the case)?

I just came accross this when checking whether #33541: some elements can get marked invisible, but this doesn't get saved, so is lost on reload is a duplicate, then noticed the diff between the beta and current nightlies.
Making the Initial barlines invisible via style helps if you want this for all systems, not if you want it for one only, and no, I don't have a real use case...

So the easy answer still appears to be, disable this, since it isn't going to work: the system initial barline is not a real barline, not written to the score file. Note also it gets destroyed if the layout changes.

But if a use case is found, adding a second flag to measure properties to control the visibility of the left barline for the measure (along with the barline style) would be a possible way to go about it.

Well it is gone from Inspector, only Debugger is left. Not sure whether this is planned to be in the final, of not: problem solved.

Just for the record:

@Jojo-Schmitz about # 7: the change is intentional and by design; the initial bar line of a system is no longer editable and displaying its properties in the Inspector for editing would be contradictory. Also, it is no longer written to output score files or read from them. It is now a purely internally generated element.

The bar line remains selectable to allow a very specific interaction: double-clicking a bar line style (typically the double bar) in the bar line palette to have a system initial bar line drawn with double style.

As Marc noted above, this style property is not really a property of the bar line but of the measure which happens to be the first of the system: whenever that measure is the first of a system, the system initial bar line will drawn as a double bar (some other styles are also supported for completeness, but they are probably of very limited use).

Back to the original post:

Currently, turning on/off the visibility of individual system initial bar lines is disabled and not supported and there is no plan to support it in the future, unless real use cases show up. System initial bar lines can be globally turned off with a relevant style setting, if this is the intended result.

Can we now close the issue?

M.

See #33541: some elements can get marked invisible, but this doesn't get saved, so is lost on reload

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.

Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.