Issue in 2.0.2: Bagpipe embellishments inaccurate when used on bagpipe score

• Jul 29, 2015 - 02:27
Type
Graphical (UI)
Severity
S4 - Minor
Status
closed
Project
MuseScore

Hello,

I appreciate the inclusion of bagpipe embellishments in the most recent version of MuseScore, but I've noticed a bit of a problem with them.

If I use embellishments from that palette on a score where piano (for example) is the instrument for the score, it works perfectly: a G grace note is a G, a D throw has all the correct notes (G-D-C, although there shouldn't be a sharp on the C), and so on, exactly what I'd expect to see.

However, if I'm using bagpipes as the instrument for the score, the embellishments are off. The G grace note goes in as an A, the D throw as A-E-D sharp, followed by a D natural. I end up having to hand-correct each entry. This seems to hold true for other embellishments as well.

I understand that this may be how the program "adjusts" for bagpipes being pitched differently, but this adjustment isn't how bagpipe tunes are written--a G grace note needs to be a G when applied from the palette. I've attached small shots as examples.

Thank you for you time and attention.

GIT commit: f51dc11

Attachment Size
bagpipe score G grace note and dthrow.PNG 4.45 KB
Piano score G grace note Dthrow.PNG 3.6 KB

Comments

• Oct 9, 2015 - 14:50

Hello @ all,
.
I aggree, embellishment will not work, as it should - it is "jolting"... For that, I did some test editing Bagpipe sound with MS 2.02 and default Soundfont FluidR3Mono_GM.sf3. I'm no specialist for "Scottish Highland Pipe", I even do not possess any bag pipe at all... But in my testscore on that "new sound features", there were some difficulties, that needed to be worked around. Might there still be some features inside MuseScore, that could need some debugging?
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For that purpose, I set up the attached "demo" with two sounding examples inside, to show the difficulties. First the "playable" version - by using some workaround, then it's faulty predecessor. Both attached in one file to this post. Would some development teamster please be so kind and take a look over it?
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------------------------------------------------
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The target for this score could be defined as "To create a score sounding like some real bagpiping at Stirling Bridge (celebrating a memorial for William Wallace)"
.
Any listener's ears might recognize the "typical Highland Pipe" by the following sound events
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1. Typical "Reed" sound-samples are needed
2. Fade in of bourdon (drones) at beginning of score (The bag has to be inflated, before pipers can play This will be the only change of "Dynamics".)
3. Once sounding, the drones keep sounding on the whole piece through - without "retriggering"
4. Much Volume, Reverb & Chorus
5. No Dynamics changed the piece through (exc. #2 above. Impossible with instruments this type of sound-generation)
6. Much "gracenotes" in the chanter-voice, mainly for separating notes of identical pitch. (Bagpipe-"embellishments")
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What had to be done, to obtain "typical Bagpipe"-Sound?
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1. Typical "Reed" sound-samples are needed. Just easy, the default Soundfont FluidR3Mono_GM.sf3 offers the ethnic Instrument as #110 Bagpipe. = Scottish Highland-Pipe. Sound is devided into pitch range C(2) - A(3) for "Drones", pitch range Bb(3) - C(6) for "Chanter". Performs rather good.
NO DIFFICULTY.
.
2. Fade in of bourdon (drones) at beginning of score (The bag has to be inflated, before pipers can play) See Example Measure 3, Bass Clef)
DIFFICULTY: No change of dynamics/volume, if sound was already trigged once before, volume will stay on that level... Neither, one 1/1 note nor tied 16/16th notes will perform this (only) volume-change. Reason: unknown; Workaround: Use of untied 1/16th to simulate "fade in" of Drone Pipes
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3. Once triggered, the drones keep sounding on the whole piece through - without "retriggering".
So, normally all notes for that bourdon-sound should be "tied" (Markup complete staff, and add [+] to set ties)
DIFFICULTY: Score begins replaying in the right way, but somewhere and some measures later, the sound will "cut off", be interrupted - and vanish. Reason unknown. Workaround: deleting the previous "tie" (only that) will retrigger sound.
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4. Much Volume, Reverb & Chorus. To obtain that, I use adjusting Mixer-/Synth-Effect controls first, second some old "mixing trick": Double the Track and do a Backmix as it's own reverb, at less volume and a little phase shifted, (by one 1/64 rest at beginning)
NO DIFFICULTIY. (If you want to see "Reverb tracks" in that example: They are noted in "hidden staves".)
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5. No Dynamics changed the piece through (exc. #2 above. Impossible with instruments this type of sound-generation)
Just had to set "fortissimo" at start of score, and leave it that way.
NO DIFFICULTY.
.
6. Much "gracenotes" in the chanter-voice, mainly for separating notes of identical pitch. (Bagpipe-"embellishments")
Just open up Palette with 234 Bagpipe-Embellishments and try to find the "right one"...
DIFFICULTIES:
a) Palette with bagpipe-embellishments at current state has not much use... This very big palette with a number of 234 "figures" is rather confusing for input, indeed...
b) Current embellishment-set is developed for setting notes at the scale / pitch-range of the "Highland-Pipe" from a' to a'' - but that's only one member of Bagpipe-Family. Others, like french "Biniou", might be similar, others, e.g. "Scottish Border Pipe" will use another bore and scale (g' to g''). It would need another set...
c) Embellishments don't perform the right duration/timing at replay-time - they are "jolting". Notated as "1/32nd"-notes, they are remarkingly "slow" - too long + slow for the target-effect. (Maybe, this could be the same with any "1/32ns-gracenote-figure?)
Workaround: Edited "acciaccatura" (Grace Note) instead "embellishments-figures", it's much easyer to edit between 1 to 6 single notes than finding the right embellishment in that huge palette. Grace Notes, although notated as "1/8th"-notes, are remarkingly "fast & short" - fast enough for that soundeffect. Does not read correct, but replays right.
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Would you let me know, what you found out? Thanks in advance.
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Sincerely
FarrierPete

Attachment Size
Scotland the Brave (errors).mscz 27.03 KB

Reply

• Oct 9, 2015 - 15:12

I don't think the things you list are connected to the original issue. You should instead post these to the support forum where they can be discussed in more detail to determine if they are actually bugs or not, then for any that are are confirmed to be be bugs, file them separately to the issue tracker.

Reply

• Oct 15, 2015 - 15:27

Hi, Marc
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I did follow your suggestion "You should instead post these to the support forum where they can be discussed".
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Seems, that up to now no one shows interest on "Bagpipe" and some possible bugs on replay it's "embellishments".
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... No Response...
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See: > https://musescore.org/en/node/82941
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Would you - or any other development team member - please be so kind, and help with that problem - or let me know? Please, just one sign, that someone is trying to support the user...
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Sincerely
FarrierPete

Reply

• Mar 23, 2016 - 11:15

Hi, I am new to bagpipe on MuseScore. I have been following the above developments. I do have a question though. It says above 'Fixed in branch 2.0.3', does that mean that an update is available. I have tried updating but no joy. I am using 2.0.2
regards

Reply