Search facilities in Musescore - I struggle with
My suggestion for a future new update of Musescore relates to the 'search' facility. I (honestly) hardly ever find what I am looking for, initially at least, and it results in a lot of time lost. For example, if you want to find 'Control+Z' you will get lots of results but none relating to information on the basic routine 'Control+Z' - in fact everything else. However, if you were to search 'shortcuts' or 'cntrl+Z' you would get an explanation or links for 'Control+Z.'
My point is if you had the knowledge to search using the word 'shortcut' or 'cntrl+Z', you probably would not have needed to search in the first place. I often return to Google/ then Musesore.org to find what I am looking for.And the 'Did you mean?' facility does not help matters, in my opinion.
I am thinking of an 'advanced search' facility which allows you to refine a search, say, which allows such things as 'search only with word' or 'search with word beginning'. I believe that would help.
And as an added bonus, this might reduce the number of questions posed on the Forums and make it easier for all?
Not sure what others think or experience?
Many thanks
Comments
Just to be clear, you're referring to "a future new update of musescore.org," not the MuseScore application, right?
In reply to Just to be clear, you're by Isaac Weiss
I am making a suggestion for future improvement. The search facility just above the words Musescore Software - on the Musescore home page prompt ' Search for help' and on the Musescore Handbook page 'Search in Handbook'
I am not sure what you are referring to? I did not know of a 'search' facility within the software or application itself only a 'help' section? Could you clarify what you mean please?
In reply to I am making a suggestion for by collierr
double post
In reply to I am making a suggestion for by collierr
There is None in the Software, I guess that is what Zack is trying to get at ;-)
Why would you want to searchg for "Control+Z" rather than "Ctrl+Z"? Te latter works...
In reply to There is None in the by Jojo-Schmitz
Not everyone understands even the short form you reference. (Ctrl).
In reply to Not everyone understands even by xavierjazz
That simply is what the corresponding key is labeled with.
But indeed it seems you are seaching for the answer rather than the question, which seems strange, doesn't it?
So, this is a website/documentation topic and not related to the software development angle. With that clarified, how would you see an "Advanced search" facility working? What would it look like? What would it do? How would it help find information on "control z"?
EDIT: I do see one tiny, apparent software error. Read on to the last paragraph. But otherwise the question seems peculiar.
Am I missing the point here? Why would you want to search for the question using the answer as the search term?
Just look at the main menu. Edit > Undo gives you the shortcut instantly. I also opened the Help menu and searched the online handbook for "undo". That also gave me the answer instantly.
EDIT: I do see one omission, however. If you look at Edit > Preferences > Shortcuts, shortcuts for Copy, Paste and others are shown, while "Undo" is not shown (in version 2.0.0 for Ubuntu).
In reply to EDIT: I do see one tiny, by RexC
It is shown in the Edit menu though (well, it is here under Windows 7)
In reply to It is shown in the Edit menu by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes, it's shown in the Edit menu and the online Help document, but not in the shortcuts. I think the omission counts as a minor bug.
In reply to Yes, it's shown in the Edit by RexC
I suspect that MuseScore does not actually define this shortcut but relies on the operating system and/or Qt to trigger it, and same for some other generic shortcuts common to most programs, like Ctrl+S for File / Save, etc. I notice those do not show in the list as well. And this is most likely related to an issue that I can't find, where these shortcuts get temporarily cleared after resetting in the shortcuts dialogs,
In reply to I suspect that MuseScore does by Marc Sabatella
I used the control+Z simply as an example only. So I feel we have strayed a bit and the point is being missed.
There are many other times I used the search facility and found that I was going down a 'blind alley', to use an expression. Or I 'got no-where fast' is another.
Refining the search or advance searching might help to solve this, in my opinion.
But maybe this is best raised in another Musesore forum area? I raised it here as I thought others might have had a similar experience?
In reply to I used the control+Z simply by collierr
Since its really a discussion about the Handbook not about MuseScore itself, I suppose the Documentation forum might be a better place, but here is as good as any now that we understand what you are talking about.
I guess I don't tend to use the search facility for the Handbook as much as simply looking at the main page and scanning for what interests me (or even doing a simple text search of that page with Ctrl+F). But I generally have very lwo expectations for on-site search facilities in general and almost always do searches using Google and the site:www.yyy.com tag rather than whatever facility a site provides itself.
I might also put in a small plug for my book . The index and table of contents are both reasonably useful (not that either would allow you to looking individual keyboard shortcuts).
In reply to I used the control+Z simply by collierr
Maybe youe can come up with better examples of search terms that don't work?
In reply to Maybe youe can come up with by Jojo-Schmitz
Ok I'll try to gather some examples and post them sometime.
For now try this one:
If you are of average experience or fairly new and you want to:
Know about pedal symbols and how to insert in a piece. If you put in 'pedal symbols' in the Handbook search facility, I guarantee that you will either (a) not get the answer you want (b) or will be blinded or confused by the answers (4 of them).
Try it and see.
In reply to Ok I'll try to gather some by collierr
When I type that into the search box on the handbook page, the very first hit I get is this page, which is exactly the right answer:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/lines-0
If there is some question you have that is not answered on this page, I don't think a better search facility will help - we just need to flesh out this page with more information. What specifically were you missing?
In reply to I suspect that MuseScore does by Marc Sabatella
I don't think it's related to cleared shortcuts. I haven't touched those shortcuts in a long time.
I don't see an obvious pattern to what's listed and what isn't. FYI, I found that some are defined in the Shortcuts Tab of the Preference menu (Ubuntu v. 2.0.0), some are undefined, and some don't have entries:
0 = no entry
- = not defined
+ = defined
New 0
Open 0
Save 0
Save As... 0
Close 0
Print +
Quit +
Undo -
Redo -
Cut +
Copy +
Paste +
Select All +
Full Screen +
Reset User Settings + (=? Layout > Reset)
Plugin Creator +
In reply to I don't think it's related to by RexC
I just mean, the bug with clearing shortcuts probably has the same underlying cause.
collier, let me suggest that you try using Google to search the site if you are not finding what you want. You can narrow a search to a site by adding "site:example.com" to the search. As an aside, I sometimes add "site:edu" when I need to filter out crap and get some sound non-commercial info on a technical topic.
So you can search on: " site:musescore.org control+z " .
You'll find that "control-z" , "ctrl-z" , and "ctrl+z" also work. Whether it's Google's AI at work, or just the flexibility of their matching, I don't know.
As an aside to people who think that a novice should already be an expert and ask the perfect question in local canonical form, let me mention that in many settings, we use "-" and not "+", and that some keyboards label the Control key differently. In Emacs, it is common to use "C-Z" or "Ctrl-Z". I think that the question was quite reasonable. But making an intelligent search is non-trivial...
In reply to collier, let me suggest that by MikeN
I agree it is hard to predict how someone might abbreviate a shortcut, and that in general, designing a great search facility is difficult, but that it is important to try, because people will come up with all sorts of different ways of asking the same questin. I've often thought the same in confucntion with the FAQ-of-all-FAQ's on thus forum, the zillion different ways people have found to ask "how do I use multiple voices" :-)
Still, I do think it very odd that someone would ask a question like "what does ctrl+z" do, regardless of what spelling they choose. A more common question would surely be, "what is the shortcut for undo"? In other words, I can't think of any case where one would normally include the shortcut itself in the search - that's the information one is normally searching *for*. That's the aspect of this example that I found most confusing.
In reply to I agree it is hard to predict by Marc Sabatella
I can explain why I searched for ctrl+z You (Marc) had suggested I use it to solve a problem to do with items which had suddenly appeared and were difficult to remove - that was a separate post, separate subject. As I had never heard of ctrl+z, I tried to look it up before applying it to me piece. And I found that search difficult. That problem has now been resolved. Thanks to you.
When I came later to make the separate point (in this separate post) about difficulties in searching, I used the ctrl+z as an example. I could have used any other example quite easily. At that stage ctrl+z was not my problem. It is unfortunate that that search item I used has become the topic of focus and conversation. That was not my intention.
My point still is the search facility improvement - where in advance search - you can 'refine' the search, use 'only certain key words' or/and 'narrow down your search' so you find what you are looking for. Alternatively find that it does not exist where you are looking. So you don't lose time.
Where do I make that point and to whom - is my question now?
In reply to I can explain why I searched by collierr
Well, as I said, the Documentation forum is the best place to discuss ideas about improving documentation. At this point, I'd recommend that rather than trying to further redirect this discussion back to your original intended purpose.
Thanks for the explanation about searching for ctrl+z. Hopefully you will agree this is a an unusual special case, though. And it's not totally beside the point to discuss specifics. In order to make a search for "control-z" hit on "Ctrl+Z" (or whatever), that means implementing some sort of "synonym" facility and providing a list of likely alternate spellings for various terms. So, that would be one concrete idea to propose as a result of this.
A Google search for
ctrl-z site:musescore.org
gets you the answer instantly. It's the first hit, and the information you want is displayed right on the search page.
If you want to improve searching for almost any computer program, that's the first thing to try. And Marc Sabatella doesn't have to lift a finger to get you that capability. Hmm, did anyone already mention this?
In reply to A Google search for ctrl-z by RexC
Well, I tried "pedal symbols" from the search box on this page and did not get the result Marc did. I guess the part that is missing from the search capability is "what page do I need to be on to get the answer to my question?", which is not useful.
If Google is so much better, and, as I agree, it is so difficult to write a high quality search capability, why do we have a search function rather than a link to google for search?
In reply to Well, I tried "pedal symbols" by xavierjazz
Because https://musescore.org/en/search/site can actually do a whole bunch of things that Google couldn't—for example, searching just the MuseScore Handbook, or searching the issue tracker. Look at the tabs at the top of the search page.
In reply to Well, I tried "pedal symbols" by xavierjazz
You have to already be on a Handbook page to get the search to be constrained to just Handbook entires. if you search from a forum page, you'll get hits on forum posts.
In reply to You have to already be on a by Marc Sabatella
Or, from https://musescore.org/en/search/handbook/, which can be accessed from any search page by clicking the "Handbook" tab at the top.
In reply to Or, from by Isaac Weiss
Having both Google and Musescore to search is no bad thing. But having the facility to narrow down your search or put in 'key words' in the search in Musescore (in addition to the current search facility) would be a good thing - in my humble opinion! Avoids spurious and copious results. But I feel I am on my own in this regard?
In reply to Having both Google and by collierr
No, I agree there is room for improvement in the on-site search facility. We could still sue discussion of *specific* improvements. A synomym list to allow control to match ctrl is one specific improvement I've seen mentioned on this thread, but nothing else very specific.