Turn off automatic rests?

• Nov 13, 2015 - 20:47

Can anyone tell me if it's possible to turn off automatic rests (the rests that fill in the measure after you start inputting notes)


Comments

MuseScore requires all measures to have the correct number of beats. If for some reaosn you need a measure to have fewer beats than the time signature dictates, you can change actual duration of the measure by right clicking the measure and choosing Measure Properties. You can also hide rests if you have a specific notation situation where not showing the correct number of beats is desired. But in the normal course of notation, measure always should have the correct number of beats.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Yes, of course the measure should have the right number of beats. I just meant from the standpoint of entering notes. I would prefer it to show empty space in the measure, as opposed to the remaining beats of rest. But I could understand how many would like to have the rests auto fill in as well, just a preference thing I suppose

In reply to by mikec

It's more than preference., it's objectively more efficient the current way. The big advantage is that you can leave note input mode at any time without worrying about whether you have entered all the necessary notes / rests. Which is to say, it saves work when leaving note input mode in cases where you have not entered all necessary beats yet, and there are no situations where it *costs* work.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

When you come back to enter more notes it is far preferable to see the rests because you can then know where you are entering the note. If the measure had one note in it and the rest was blank then your note entry would either have to start immediately after that note (no choice about positioning) or you'd have to click in the measure roughly where you thought the note should go (you may or may not get it right) or you'd have to click on the already-entered note and then right-arrow to the blank space and continue.

If you do not want to see rests you can make them invisible so you do have an option already available.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

It is entirely screwed up that you can't turn it off. If you try to go back and change the value of a note, it starts adding all types of f'ed up rests. For example, I started a transcription entering groups of a dotted eight note and sixteenth note. I then decided to just use eight notes with swing time. It was impossible to go back and change the notes. Not only was the rest of the bar f'ed up each change I made, but it actually takes out notes to make up for the f'ed up rest corrections. I've wasted a LOT of time trying to figure this out. And this is just one example. I can't efficiently figure out how to go back and change anything. It is absolutely stupid.

In reply to by Mr. Russ

I've never found keeping the count of a measure as it is (always have 4 beats in 4/4) 'entirely screwed up'. Its actually keeping the measure correct so that at whatever moment in time I stop/restart writing the score I never have to keep track of all the measures I would've made incomplete. This is even more true if my co-composer continues where I left off.

MuseScore never 'adds' rests. It notates the remainder of the measure in a correct manner at all times.

You problem seems to be that you've written a melody and then decide to change the melody that is written by a new one. As far as anyone or anything except your own mind knows, this melody could be completely different. You know you want to go from dotted eight + sixteenth to two eights with the same pitch as before. No psychic on the planet can guess that, let alone a computer. You might just as well have decided to use entirely different pitches, including uncommon tuplets etc…

In your specific case, the rewrite is quite doable without having an impact. On each dotted eight, use the '.'-key to remove the dot. Of course musescore will now show a normal eight + sixteenth rest + old sixteenth note. Hit the right arrow twice, landing you on the sixteenth. Cut and paste it to the rest just before it. Hit '4' to turn it into an eight note.
Rinse and Repeat.

In reply to by Mr. Russ

To reiterate - don't think of MuseScore as adding rests. Seeing it that means you are not understanding what is actually happening, so you will continue to be surprised by what is happning and not find the most efficient way of working. MuseScore is simply keeping ypur notes where you entered them. If you enter a sixteenth on the last part of a beat, then change something earlier in the piece (whether it is the dotted eighth right before it, a half note earlier kn the measure, or a nite ten measures earlier), MuseScore is simply leaving your sixteenth nite right where you put it. It's not stupid, it's exactly what you want most of the time. You wouldn't want every change you affecting nots later in the score - you normally want them to stay put. Sure, this particular time, you want one particular note to move - and the rst of the piece to stay the same presumably - but as stated, MuseScore can't guess that. If you want to move a note earlier, simply do it yourself. It's easy.

In reply to by paranoyak

Could you explain in more detail what you mean, perhaps by attaching your score and giving precise steps to reproduce the problem you are perceiving? The only rests MuseScore adds automatically are the ones needed according to standard rules of notation, and they are placed in the usual correct locations in most cases. The one exception I know of is in compound meters where we don't correctly follow the standard procedure. Still, even if we didn't add them at all, you'd need to dd them yourself, and you can already do that, so not adding them automatically wouldn't help at all

Yeah, it would make my life so much easier if there was a way to turn off those damn automatic rests. I get how it helps some people, but it doubles the work for me. I switched over to this from Finale when they went to a subscription base. Wish I could afford to go back. Such hand holding.

In reply to by Christoforo La…

Can you explain how they increase the work? They shouldn't in any way whatsoever. They should neither help or hurt - entering a given passage of music should take exactly the same number of keystrokes/clicks either way. So perhaps attach a sample score and describe what is giving you trouble, and we'll be happy to help you see how to do it most efficiently. As a former Finale user myself, I do remember the difference in working method caught me off-guard at first, but once I got used to the difference, I realized it really does work very well.

Try Finale Notepad, it's free, it lets you enter any notes you want and change them anyway you like. You can copy and paste into Muse once you've written what you want without all that rest insertion and note deletion that drives everyone mad.

In reply to by annie_aaa@hotm…

You can enter any notes you want in MuseScore as well. If you're having trouble understanding how, feel free to start a new thread, attach your score, and describe what is giving you trouble. Once you leanr how MuseScore works, you'll appreciate how amazingly simple and powerful it is, and you'll never want to resort to Notepad again!

In short: it does not seem to be possible at the moment.

This is why such option would be a convenient feature, actually saving time. Say you just composed/arranged/transcribed a melody where a fragment has one 8th note followed by two 16th notes. Then for whatever reason you decide to swap the duration of the first two notes of that fragment, without altering the pitch. Handwriting on a sheet of paper you would just fix the 16th note beaming, done. That's intuitive, but in MuseScore if you select the second note and make it from 16th's into 8th's then MuseScore "eats" the next 16th note to keep the bar correct. That's annoying, you have to go back and edit. Sort of same story happens if you decide to shorten the first note into 8th: a rest is created, you have to "move ahead" the other note then lengthen it into 8th...

It would be way quicker to just select the first note and shorten it into 16th's, select the second note and lengthen it into 8th's, done. You see how that "no-autocorrect" option would temporarily break the bar rhythmic integrity but streamline the workflow. IMO it works well in other apps like Guitar Pro 7, just saying.

In reply to by jubidar

You wrote:
...a fragment has one 8th note followed by two 16th notes.
Then:
swap the duration of the first two notes of that fragment, without altering the pitch. Handwriting on a sheet of paper you would just fix the 16th note beaming, done.

So....
Duration_spacing.png
MuseScore is much better than "handwriting on a sheet of paper" because it takes care of nuances (like correct spacing) that scribbling a beam over paper notes (what you say is intuitive) overlooks.

Regards, and welcome aboard

In reply to by Jm6stringer

Thank you Jm6stringer for clarifying - I agree. Of course, spacing is important and using notation software that takes care of things like that is a much cleaner solution than handwriting. You are missing my point though, which is actually getting the correct note duration in a fast way (letting the software taking care of spacing and so on).
MuseScore seems to be using the same notation approach of other software products like Sibelius and Finale. It might be a personal preference but it doesn't look I am the only one asking for that kind of capability. Don't get me wrong though, I am writing this because I want to contribute positively and possibly help make MuseScore better.

Turn off auto rests also help multiple voices editing cleaner. When add even a single note on multiple staff score, the new added note(which add a new voice) will try to fill every rests on for that voice.

In reply to by intijk

No, it does not. If there is no rests, you can't input a note.
Like if you have a quarter notes in voice 2, beat 1, no rest in voice 2, beat 2, 3 and4, you can't input a note in voice 2, beat 3 or 4 withput first addoing a rest in voice 2 beat 2.
After that you can delete these rests again though.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

It's good to have all the rests in each voice but can get a bit messy when editing guitar scores in 4 voices. Guitar Pro has an option to automatically hide rests in voices 2, 3 and 4. This keeps the score cleaner whilst editing and doesn't require a delete step in the workflow.

it would be nice to see this feature in MS, perhaps with an extra twist: an option to show only those rests in the voice selected for editing.

In reply to by intijk

Whether it is correct, or not, people should still have the option to disable the automatic rests should they choice to. They should not have to explain or justify themselves. It's their preference, which some of you may not agree with or even understand, but that shouldn't matter. It is obviously a feature people believe would be beneficial to them and that's all that matters. Note: patronizing people never helps resolve an issue, in fact it typically only amplifies it.

In reply to by bowsher

No patronizing. You're asking for the entire program to be rewritten. There are no 0 beat measures in MuseScore so this isn't going to happen. It is far too easy, especially in version 3, to adjust the number of beats in a measure. Just keep in mind that deleting or adding a beat in one instrument affects all instruments.

In reply to by yonah_ag

It's not too difficult to hide all rests in a voice. Right click any rest, choose select>more... check "in the same voice" and the other appropriate options then make them invisible in the inspector. Pressing v will work if nothing is already invisible so the inspector is a sure way to do this.

In reply to by mike320

But this is a manual process, (which I already use). It would be helpful if there was an option to hide them automatically as notes are being entered.

Yes, pressing V also works but adds to the inputs: for each rest to be hidden, select rest, press v, re-select input position for next note.

In reply to by yonah_ag

You mean have them automatically hidden as they are generated? I would think in most real world use cases that result in more work for the user, needing to unhide the rests that need to be there. A Real world example showing what you mean could help.

Meanwhile, you can always use right-click, Select / More / Same voice to select all rests in a voice (and optionally also limit it to a range selection) and make them invisible at once.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Yes, automatically hidden as they are generated. Please :-)

This would be so helpful in the real world of guitar TAB; so helpful in fact that Guitar Pro has such an option. Rests in voice 1 are always shown but in other voices can be automatically hidden. In 4 voice scoring it makes such a difference.

And in this real world of guitar TAB there is rarely a need to unhide them but if needed then in GP you simply change the option to show all rests.

In reply to by frfancha

Some rests need to be hidden, others do not. Currently, you need to hide the wants you want hidden. With such an option (a word that did not appear in the post to which I was responding), you'd need to unhide the ones you don't. Until we see the specific score and the specific use case, we don't know if there would be more rests that need to be unhidden or not. And adding more and more options to confuse users with is something we try to be conservative about. There needs to be a proven need for it. proven by way of common real world use cases showing why it would be truly useful to a large enough group of people to be worth the added complexity.

So, as always, posting a real score and explaining in greater detail what one is looking for is vital in helping demonstrate why such an option should exist and in helping developers understand how to design it in a way that would actually address the specific use case it is intended for.

In reply to by cadiz1

The video moves rather fast, but I think I see what's happening. When you click a voice besides 1, a whole note rest is created or shown in the measure for that voice. When you enter a note, only the note is shown, there is no rest shown.

In reply to by mike320

Not really.
Simply, in input mode, when you switch from one voice to another, it automatically hides all notes (and rests of course) in the other voices. Automatically, that's the key word. And the button to the far right of the squares of voices 1,2,3,4, allows to fully display all the voices again.
Imagine with MuseScore: you type 2 C half note in Voice1 -> Ctrl + left arrow -> Select Voice 2. Result, the two C in Voice 1are "invisible"/hidden automatically (so, only by the action to click Voice 2 square, or shortcut)
Let's say as if the selected voice was becoming a "Solo" voice. Only the selected voice (notes and rests, again) is fully displayed, all others are hidden.

In reply to by cadiz1

So, you're talking specifically about adding notes to a tab staff, and wanting the linked rests on the standard staff to default to invisible? That's because you don't want to see those rests in the finished score? A real example score would help further in understanding.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

A real example score? The gif!
I won't be able to develop much because I don't use much GP.
"And wanting the linked rests on the standard staff to default to invisible?"
No, I don't think so.
" That's because you don't want to see those rests in the finished score?"
No, no more than that.
As I understand it (maybe I'm wrong), it's only a visual aid in input mode (again, as a comparison, think to "Solo" feature in Mixer): isolating the currently selected voice (and thus hiding the others) makes it easier to input, it's potentially less a bunch of notes/rests/frets fully displayed in different voices.

In reply to by cadiz1

The problem with the GIF is it keeps moving. I want to see an actual score I can study and understand how the vocies and rests are working, to understand how such a feature would need to work and what final results it would help in producing.

If it's just a visual aid while editing, OK, then indeed there is nothing to see I guess. To me it's not an aid at all but confusing, but here again, it's hard to really say from just a GIF - I'd need to play with it in action.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Marc, a score will not help anything at all since the equivalent is not possible with MuseScore. You won't be able to test it, you won't be able to do it, or, learn to play with Guitar Pro. As I said, in my understanding, it is a visual aid in input mode, and nothing more. This does not affect the final rendering of notes and rests in both standard and TAB staves. I cannot be any clearer than in my previous comment. If I'm wrong, hoping others take over. For my part, I will stop here.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Phew! Thank you cadiz1, mike320 and frfancha.

Marc: Yes, it's just a visual aid in the TAB and yes, it's just an option.

There is no staff linking involved. It is a single guitar tab staff scored in 4 voices.

It doesn't affect playback but can be allowed to affect screen/print rendering. I generally show my final tab with only voice 1 rests visible. (It's not confusing for tab users. Don't forget that TAB's origin was in plain text format and no-one was showing any rests back then. You were lucky if you even got a time signature.)

I don't have any opinion on what should happen in the notation as I don't show notation at all.

I reckon you've just been over-thinking this request because TAB is not your preferred means of scoring. It may be confusing to you but would be common sense to guitar tabbers. It's all those darn, (but necessary), "extra" rests that cause me confusion.

In reply to by bowsher

You don't need to explain why you want to turn this off, but if you do explain what it is exactly that you are trying to do, we can better assist you. As it is, it isn't clear what you are doing or what problem the rests are causing, so we can't really make suggestions as to how to best get the job done.

Going back to my original post on this question. The reason is that when software automatically puts rests in, it's annoying for anyone who knows what they're doing. The old Encore by Passport (still the best in our opinion) did not place automatic anything in measures and it was very easy to use. None of the notation software like Finale, Sibelius, MuseScore, etc come close to ease of use like Encore did, IMO.

In reply to by mikec

If you explain the specific situation where you find the rests to be a problem, that would help us in advising and assisting you. Otherwise, there is little we can do except say, we don't understand the problem, because you haven't sufficiently explained it. For example, if you attach an actual score, tell us, "click this, press do, do this, and then you will see that if only the rests weren't there, this would have happened instead of that and this would have been better because now I have to do this when otherwise I would have only had to to that". That's the kind of detail we'd need in order to understand the perceived problem.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I fought with this last night as a new user. Here's an example user experience:

User selects a measure and enters "freeform" mode. The software now allows the user to enter notes or whatever manually but continually scans the measure and highlights it red if the measure is formed incorrectly - essentially if the system would do any inserts to manage time. The system (optionally) displays in a "floating" measure to the side what it would do to fix.

The user inputs whatever.

If the measure is "green" the user can exit "freeform" mode and continue on.

If the measure is "red", the user can see what is suggested (that "floating" measure) and the software will present the option to accept that change. The user can fix it or accept the option to turn the box green and exit "freeform"

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