Our Progress on MuseScore 4 - Update 1
[Edited for clarity: 14, June, 2021]
Hi everyone,
I wanted to give a general update about the remaining work left on MuseScore 4. We've recreated most of the new interface and functionality now and have ported over most of the MuseScore 3 functionality too. Now we feel it is possible to begin mapping out a draft release schedule, although there are still some large chunks of work that are hard to estimate so this timeline may change (hopefully by getting shorter!). In addition, I want to describe what aspects of the application we are planning on delaying until a future release (4.1, 4.2, etc.).
Playback
The single largest piece of remaining work relates to playback. The 'primary' Fluid synthesiser will remain the default, as is the case with MuseScore 3 but we will be removing the the 'secondary' Zerberus sampler/synthesiser and replacing it with VST support (Zerberus is incompatible with the GPL3 license, which we needed to switch to in order to support VST3). We are also developing an optional sound library that will not be packaged with MuseScore, which can be downloaded and activated (for free) once the application has been installed. We will create a separate detailed post about this shortly.
Another consequence of moving to GPL3 is that the old reverb and limiter effects (Zita & SC4) will need to be replaced with new VST effects instead. For now, when installing the new MuseScore library, we will also download and install two of our own VST effects to make up for this. Since we are only beginning on our VST journey, there will be many opportunities to integrate compatible VST and VSTi plugins in later releases.
We will be removing the 'Synthesiser' panel entirely from MuseScore and building some of the functions it served (ordering sounds and library priorities) into our new Mixer. For 'master' FX, we will be creating new auxiliary channels in the mixer, where the reverb FX will be situated. We will be saving user preferences relating to playback (VST settings, Aux channel settings, preferred libraries, etc.) in our project files and will be removing the concept of 'Save to Score' and 'Load from Score'. Instead, we want to develop a system for efficiently switching between projects that have different playback settings.
Stabilisation
We are aware that it can be difficult to determine which parts of MS4 are 'finished' (but still have optimisation bugs) and which parts are just incomplete. We are going to start marking these different strands of work clearly to help the community understand where they can feel free to optimise and improve functionality and where they can expect more changes to appear. The terms we are thinking of using are:
Not started
Incomplete (the designs have not been fully implemented)
Feature Complete (requires optimisation)
Release Ready (no optimisation required)
To give two examples (at the time of writing): Our new 'Note Input Bar' is Feature Complete: the designs have been full implemented but there are a few bugs. For example, when redocking the bar, the ordering of the buttons can become mixed up under certain circumstances. Community members can feel free to optimise this part of the app without worrying about new changes occurring which might cause conflicts and headaches. We constantly review bugs and publish them on our GitHub Projects page.
The 'Inspector' however is Incomplete: there are some parts where the designs have not yet been fully implemented and there is still some significant clean up work to do. In this case, I'll be publishing a new specification highlighting what remaining work needs to be done. In all cases: if community members want to take part in helping to complete work marked as Incomplete, Peter Jonas (our community manager) and I can work closely with you to hash out the details and make sure no work is lost.
Peter will shortly be publishing a general list that outlines the status of each chunk of work shortly. Peter also holds regular live build reviews on our Discord server, where this can be discusses in person.
Timeline
Below is our draft plan for releasing MuseScore 4. Note that marketing and automatic updates will not be switched on until after we are satisfied that the application has no remaining large issues.
(See the link below for a higher resolution version)
Delayed features
As announced last year, we decided to delay the sequencer view until a future release. This was a decision taken to enable us to work on a new playback library instead. Regarding the features from MuseScore 3, the main component we are also considering delaying is the piano roll - simply because it is gargantuan in size and because we also want to completely redesign and reimplement it. This is particularly painful because the addition of VST support will make the velocity controls infinitely more desirable and useful. However, we have estimated that porting over the existing piano roll (and incorporating into the new codebase) will delay the MuseScore 4.0 release by up to two months, which we feel is a step too far for a control we ultimately want to replace. This is not to dismiss the wonderful work done by Mark McCay (and others) on the MuseScore 3 piano roll. It is simply an awkward timeline issue.
As a backup plan, we are going to create a very simplistic design for a new piano roll, which will only contain the feature that allows users to edit velocity and expression settings. We are going to open up this design in case any community members wish to build it. We have also added this as a Google Summer of Code project, although it is unlikely that the outcome will be a feature that will be ready for MuseScore 4.0 due to the limited number of hours that GSoC students have to work with.
In the instance where there is no piano roll in MuseScore 4.0, users will need to edit velocity settings using the inspector, as in MuseScore 3. Don't worry though. The piano roll is a vitally important feature, which we are going to prioritise once MuseScore 4.0 is released.
After the release
The best thing about MuseScore 4.0 is that once we've built it (with its new architecture, playback engine and UI), we'll never have to build anything so massive ever again. We then intend to move to a steady release cadence, so we can gradually build up feature improvements in a more manageable and transparent way.
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Comments
What license will the separate download playback system use?
In reply to What license will the… by reddiesel41264
Not determined yet. We'll be posting a more detailed explanation about all playback changes (including how the new Mixer will work) around mid-May.
In reply to What license will the… by reddiesel41264
What innovations will there be in accessibility?
In reply to What innovations will there… by umutkorkmaz
It's still early to say much about specifics on any feature, really. But one thing that was very recently implemented is an easier way to navigate between toolbars and windows within the interface, instead of a long tab journey from the score then through all the fields of the Inspector then through the toolbars then through the palette etc. Also, there is a basic Braille export facility that is implemented.
In addition, it is hoped that by MuseScore 4 we will have in place what we would need to finally support VoiceOver (and presumably Narrator as well, although hardly anyone seems to actually request that). But that's still easier said than done. And there is a possibility there will be support for additional color scheme options (eg, light-on-dark scores, for those on systems that don't support this directly already).
Are there specific things you are interesting in?
In reply to It's still early to say much… by Marc Sabatella
How about a way to navigate between open documents/tabs without "trying them all", like all other multi-document apps have had for 20 or 30 years?
In reply to It's still early to say much… by Marc Sabatella
Thank you for your attention.
Reading the number of measures added manually, which is not accessible in the main palette window. (NVda does not read when added later.) Color schemes and magnifier support for low vision. Whatever can be done in the name of accessibility will make blind musicians like me happy. Voice support for Turkish and Arabic music will also make us happy. Thank you again.
In reply to Thank you for your attention… by umutkorkmaz
Can you explain what you mean about reading the number of measures added manually? How are you adding measures? With the Add / Measures menu? Are you saying your screen reader does not read the number you enter into the dialogs boxes when using the options for multiple measures? The palette adds only a single measure, so there is nothing to read. Also, which screen reader? For me, Orca reads the contents of the dialog just fine, but I recall some screen readers have issues with spin boxes. Actually, probably best to start a new thread with any issues or specific requests, but for now, this is something we'd like to know.
In reply to Can you explain what you… by Marc Sabatella
Hello there,
1. I open the Master palette window with Shift + F9.
2. I choose the Time Signatures option from the tree view.
3. With the Tab key, I go to the "Create Time signature" field and type 5.
4. I write 8 in the second writing area.
5. I add the 5/8 measure number by pressing the Add button.
NVDA is silent when it comes to 5/8 on the list. But when I look at a sender they say there is a 5/8 measure number there.
In reply to Hello there, 1. I open the… by umutkorkmaz
Oh, I see, you are talking about time signatures, not the count of how many measures you are adding. What you are describing is also an issue for sighted users, they don't see the 5/8 being add to the palette or to their score either. This has been reported recently and is something we do hope to fix.
In reply to It's still early to say much… by Marc Sabatella
Hi Marc,
I use Musescore's CLI to extract information about my scores such as "SPOS" and "MPOS", will these file types and their CLI commands remain in musescore 4?
Big news, I reported it https://musescore.org/it/node/319961
Strength and courage, continue the commendable enterprise!
Wow, certainly a massive project! Any news on the engraving-side of things? Last I heard you mentioned Simon is working on horizontal spacing?
In reply to Any news on the engraving… by BarnieSnyman
There is some ongoing MusicXML improvement work happening that may be ready for the MuseScore 4 release. However, we doubt the Horizontal Spacing work will be ready for 4.0
In reply to There is some ongoing… by Tantacrul
Thanks. While most engraving-issues can be manually tweaked right relatively easily, getting horizontal spacing right is especially difficult and time consuming. Therefore I'm keeping my fingers crossed to see horizontal spacing improvements happen soon after 4.0 then.
In reply to Thanks. While most engraving… by BarnieSnyman
I agree - looking forward to horizontal spacing becoming easier.
What's the current plan for NotePerformer? Will it be supported in 4.0 or will that come later on?
In reply to What's the current plan for… by L'Moose
We have not built NotePerformer support in MuseScore 4.0. As mentioned above, we are working on something else. More updates to come soon.
In reply to We have not built… by Tantacrul
I hope that Noteperformer will be supported eventually so I can purchase it. But this project looks great; I can't wait to see the new MuseScore 4!
Question: will MuseScore 4 have fixed the playback issues regarding section breaks and their behavior with repeats and jumps?
In reply to I hope that Noteperformer… by William Halsted
It's too early to say with any certainly which bugs might be fixed and which might not, but this is a fairly high priority one, I'd hope to see a fix.
In reply to It's too early to say with… by Marc Sabatella
I have coding experience, and am on GitHub, even though my user experience is nil, and I would like to contribute to MuseScore. I had the idea that I could fix it, as I read in its big tracker forum why it doesn't work and what could be done to fix it. I am familiar with Python, HTML, and CSS, but not others. Is MuseScore written in Python? If not, I still might be able to figure out what do do, but at any rate I will be reading the Developers' Handbook. It's probably a lost cause on my part.
If the Section Break adds a pause at the end of a measure, perhaps that pause could be inserted at the beginning of the section, before its first measure, so it is played when the section is encountered, but not before.
In reply to I have coding experience,… by William Halsted
MuseScore is largly written in C++
In reply to MuseScore is largly written… by Jojo-Schmitz
Oh, my dad used to code in that. Isn't C++ rather outdated? I thought so, at least.
In reply to Oh, my dad used to code in… by William Halsted
Well, you won't be able to code a program in CSS or HTML. And Python is a scripting language.
And no, C++ is not outdated at all.
In reply to Well, you won't be apbel to… by Jojo-Schmitz
So what's the difference between a scripting language and C++? Does Python write algorithms and C++ creates application, and might call on Python scripts to perform a function?
That puts a damper on my abilities, but I'll see; at least I have resources on coding C++.
In reply to Well, you won't be apbel to… by Jojo-Schmitz
Python can certainly be used as a scripting language but is a lot more than just a scripting language. You can develop full applications in Python which, of course, include algorithms.
https://www.howtopython.org/is-python-a-programming-language-or-scripti…
In reply to https://www.howtopython.org… by yonah_ag
Yes, I know. I have taken lessons in it for a few years, and made some "applications" that don't seem to work well when packaged as executables (they get flagged as being spam). Anyway, I'm pretty familiar with the language.
In reply to Well, you won't be apbel to… by Jojo-Schmitz
Only outdated people are using c++
In reply to Oh, my dad used to code in… by William Halsted
"My dad used C++"
LOL, it's C++ not Fortran...
It's a fair bet most applications you use are written in C++.
Python is a fine language, but it's an interpreted language. Meaning it's run by the python application at run time and is inherently slower than a language that is compiled to machine language before hand (i.e. C or C++). Hence why major applications aren't written in it.
In reply to "My dad used C++" LOL, it's… by Joshua Pettus
He used Fortran too, if that's what you mean.
Thanks for explaining the difference; it makes total sense now. I have noticed my most complicated scripts can run rather slow compared to MuseScore and Chrome and such.
In reply to He used Fortran too, if that… by William Halsted
Well, C++ is an industry standard language. If programming is a career path you want to pursue, I'd highly recommend taking a look.
In reply to Well, C++ is an industry… by Joshua Pettus
Not only, but it has improved greatly (not towards the simpler, unfortunately) with successive new standards in the past 10 years. It has massively expressive new features (but as of last check, MuseScore was restricted to the 2011 standard (maybe MS4 isn't)).
In reply to Well, C++ is an industry… by Joshua Pettus
It is, but I'm more and more interested in music (orchestra, teaching, etc.). I'm currently thinking of a double-major. Maybe my idea of fixing this MuseScore bug is a good place to start learning C++. The bug itself doesn't sound [i]too[/i] complicated. Is C++ similar to JavaScript at all?
In reply to It is, but I'm more and more… by William Halsted
Depends what you mean by "similar". It is more like Java than Javascript. It is a block-structured language like Java, Javascript, Python, C, and Algol, but not Fortran or Lisp. But it is compiled, not interpreted, which means has a profound effect on what operations are permitted at runtime, which makes it more like Java, Fortran, Algol, and the like than Python or Javascript. Find some websites and learn about it, although the C++ used in MS is quite sophisticated, but you're really sharp :) ...
In reply to Depends what you mean by … by [DELETED] 1831606
Thanks; I'll be looking into it on w3schools.com, my usual go-to for coding.
What exactly do you mean by compiling has a profound effect on what operations are permitted at runtime?
In reply to Thanks; I'll be looking into… by William Halsted
In Python or Javascript, you can add any property to any object at any time. In a compiled language, this is impossible. In Python or Javascript, you can pass any object at all to a function, and examine it to see what kind of object it is. In a compiled language, variables can only hold one type (as specified) of object, and only expressions and (contents or address) of variables of that type can be passed to functions expecting exactly that. C++ has type hierarchies and polymorphism, but you cannot pass a string to a function expecting an integer, etc. In python or javascript, lose the last pointer to an object, and it's garbage collected and gone. In a compiled language, lose the last pointer to an object and you have a memory leak (although there are storage management disciplines to minimize the chance of this). These are some of the important differences.
In reply to In Python or Javascript, you… by [DELETED] 1831606
In python or javascript, any function can call any function at all without pre-arrangement. In a compiled language, you must declare the 'prototype' of any function you intend to use in a given module, including not just its name, but the value-types it expects and returns. This is often done by including "header files" full of such declarations. The compiler must know this to compile your program and generate linkage, so that that when the compiled program is loaded, these links can be connected to the right functions in other modules. Variables, too, must be declared, saying what type of value they hold. In Python or Javascript or other interpreted languages, this is not necessary, because objects are "typed" at runtime, and any variable can "hold" (or "point to" -- where it gets interesting) any value of any type. Not so in compiled languages; that's why they're fast.
In reply to In python or javascript, any… by [DELETED] 1831606
That's fascinating; I never knew that. Everything I coded was JavaScript, HTML, CSS, and Scratch, where variables can be assigned any value. The only type errors I ran into were trying to perform operations on two variables of different types.
Yes, holding and pointing ("is" vs. "==" operators) in Python is a very interesting subject that I only recently came to understand.
Do you code Python and JavaScript as well as C++?
In reply to That's fascinating; I never… by William Halsted
I've coded in about 30 languages, including many assembler and machine languages, 2 languages of my own construction, and all the major languages of the last 50 years. Lisp is my favorite, and today I use mainly Python, although I still have a major subsystem in modern C++. I wrote your plugins in Javascript, and all the
MS->Virtual Pipe Organ stuff (which I use with Hauptwerk) in Python. See my Github presence.
In reply to I've coded in about 30… by [DELETED] 1831606
I guess I've never used PHP, or Ruby, though. And I've written compilers, assemblers, and interpreters.
In reply to I guess I've never used PHP,… by [DELETED] 1831606
Wow, that's a lot. You created your own languages? That must require an understanding of the code that the computer interprets (machine code, I think). I've always thought it'd be cool to get a Raspberry Pi and create my own OS for it.
In reply to Wow, that's a lot. You… by William Halsted
As I said, I've worked in Machine Language on many machines dating from the 1950s to the 1980s. The Raspberry Pi uses an x86-family processor, and the machine language for the x86 family is extremely complex because of optimizations in its design to keep the number of bytes it occupies to a minimum. The Mac I'm on now is really the first computer I've owned or worked on that I cannot access or program at the machine-language level. In the past, programs often failed at the machine level, so knowledge of hardware instructions was necessary. But with powerful modern IDE's (integrated development environments), this is no longer so (and yes, something is lost with beginners not knowing these things).
In reply to As I said, I've worked in… by [DELETED] 1831606
Is Python's IDLE a sort of IDE, or does it stand for something else?
I've read that, to some extent, understanding machine language, binary, and how a computer thinks is key to writing good code.
In reply to Is Python's IDLE a sort of… by William Halsted
Yes, to both questions (it is an IDE), but in an interpreted language you need one a lot less. I debug Python programs, if needed , with the ancient "stick in a 'print' statement" technique; in a compiled language, that is harder/slower. Indeed, knowing how sequential processors (generically) operate is important to writing good code, although knowing specific binary op codes and instruction formats of a specific architecture is no longer important because of IDE's (unless you are actually writing compilers or operating systems).
In reply to Yes, to both questions (it… by [DELETED] 1831606
Are compilers and OS's still being developed a lot, or have languages and ladder-logic programs (which my dad says now control all the new pumps at his plant) a larger priority?
In reply to Are compilers and OS's still… by William Halsted
Languages and compilers and interpreters for them are certainly being invented and developed. Google and Apple and Microsoft have all innovated new languages in recent years. "Operating system" is something completely different from "industrial device control program". Windows, macOS, and Linux are examples of operating systems under constant development and enhancement, although it would be near-impossible for a new operating system for personal computers to arise, because of the proliferation of applications requiring the interfaces of those. Interactive users and their applications are not at all like industrial pumps.
In reply to Languages and compilers and… by [DELETED] 1831606
So for what purposes did you create your own OS's?
In reply to So for what purposes did you… by William Halsted
I worked (with others) on the development of two large operating systems, Multics and Symbolics Genera (Lisp Machines), the former historically significant. At no point did I "develop my own OS", although I certainly (at various times) developed single-user application control programs that could in theory could be called "dedicated OS's".
In reply to As I said, I've worked in… by [DELETED] 1831606
"The Raspberry Pi uses an x86-family processor" .... No, it has an ARM processor, not an x86.
In reply to Wow, that's a lot. You… by William Halsted
Languages aren't so bad if you use a compiler generator. Secify the language syntax, then assign the actions to be performed or encoded.
Ideally compilers or interpreter systems should be layered, so that they don't target just one hardware system, but can be mapped to different machines.
It's also not a bad idea (actually a very good method, IMO) for design. Design a set of fairly low level primitives for a system, and then write code to generate those. For example, for MS one could develop a modest bunch of primitives - such as write stave, put note on stave etc., then generate a system to perform those. With a decent set of primitive functions it's then possible to make changes both above and below that level. Changes above that level would be used to modify - maybe improve - the user interface, while changes below would deal with system and hardware level features, and possibly also changes could be made to get performane enhancements.
By having a set of layered constructs one can also construct hybrid systems, which mix compiling and interpreting - for example to obtain just in time compiling systems - systems which to all intents and purposes are as fast as compile language systems, but are very quick to compile.
In reply to I guess I've never used PHP,… by [DELETED] 1831606
Count your blessings.
PHP was originally developed, with all the best intentions, as a web programming language "for the kids". The first implementation was a cgi-bin Perl script! Although it's taken on all the trappings of a major programming language with a solid OOP class system a la Java, a massive ecosystem and JIT compilation, it still shows its origins with a massively inconsistent core library. To paraphrase the MS-DOS quote: "PHP is like a skunk that got run over by a locomotive; there's not much of the original left, but you can still smell it".
Ruby doesn't offer any real advantages over Python and is much more niche, clinging on in odd places like Rails and Puppet.
I have to deal with both and dislike PHP more than almost any other language. Ruby is OK, but not really worth the effort.
Interesting that you're in to language design. It's one of my favourite topics.
In reply to I've coded in about 30… by [DELETED] 1831606
Wow :/
You really are great at almost everything :/
In reply to It is, but I'm more and more… by William Halsted
Javascript? No. Javascript is primary used for client side programing for a website.
I hear Java is similar to C#, but the only thing Java and Javascript have the same is the name.
In reply to Javascript? No. Javascript… by Joshua Pettus
C# is not C++ at all. C# is an "everything is secretly a pointer" language like Python or Lisp (or Javascript). Javascript has other uses, too, such as MuseScore/QT plugins.
In reply to C# is not C++ at all. C# is… by [DELETED] 1831606
Didn't say it was.
In reply to C# is not C++ at all. C# is… by [DELETED] 1831606
BSG wrote >> Javascript has other uses, too, such as MuseScore/QT plugins.
So could one write a MuseScore/QT plugin with TypeScript?
In reply to It is, but I'm more and more… by William Halsted
> "The bug itself doesn't sound [i]too[/i] complicated"
If it were anything easy it would've been fixed some time ago.
There is some fundamental changes required to how MuseScore processes "time" of a score to get it fixed correctly.
In reply to > "The bug itself doesn't… by jeetee
That's true. I was told, though, that it hasn't been fixed because it isn't very high priority and it hasn't bothered somebody with the know-how enough to drive them to fix it.
In reply to "My dad used C++" LOL, it's… by Joshua Pettus
Hey! Be careful - I started in Fortran, coded in C before there was a ++; and have coded assembly for what was, in it's day, an amazing device - the Z80! And yet, I'm still alive and kicking! And even doing a bit of coding still. I even became an OO junkie at one point - can you say 'Smalltalk?'
In reply to Hey! Be careful - I started… by rocchio
I already did (say "Smalltalk"). I started in Intercom 1000 on the Bendix G-15, and have programmed in assembler from massive mainframes to microprocessors. There are many surviving career professional programmers from my generation. There will still be a need for people who can see eye-to-eye with a processor after there are no more librarians, transportation drivers, offices, or teachers.
In reply to I already did (say … by [DELETED] 1831606
So you did - I love it.
In reply to Hey! Be careful - I started… by rocchio
@rocchio
Fortran was the first language I had to learn professionally. Spent a year on Fortran 4 and then we migrated to 77. It was well suited to the technical nature of the job and was a nice language to program in.
Z80 assembler was great fun on the ZX Spectrum until your code crashed and you realised that you hadn't saved it to tape - which was the only data storage format for the Spectrum - so you lost your code and then had to restart by loading the Assembly Language Editor back from tape into RAM followed by the latest save of your code.
In reply to Fortran was the first… by yonah_ag
I did love the Z80. For you, punch tape; for me, it was decks of Fortran punch cards spilled onto the floor of the Univ of Colorado computing center at 2am with the assignment due in the morning. Tho I suppose the thermos of daiquiris we smuggled in for the night didn't help any. And for any young-ns' listening in; for the record I'd much prefer to be called a 'dinosaur' (as in T-Rex) than 'gramps' (as in old geezer). Anyway - good to see that I'm not the only long-timer hanging out here.
In reply to I did love the Z80. For you,… by rocchio
Those old stories; I like hearing them. Punch cards are days long gone, but still entertaining to hear about; such as the story that the waiting involved was not punching the cards, but waiting one's turn to do so! I had no idea code used to be saved to tapes — so that's how they did it before disks. Fascinating; thanks for sharing. Sometimes I think I was born a century too late.
P.S. Was the T-Rex or Dinosaur an actual computer model, or just a nickname given to old stuff?
In reply to Oh, my dad used to code in… by William Halsted
No. C++ is not outdated at all. While it can be rather obtuse, it still provides the finest control over what the machine/OS is doing. Interpreted languages like Python don't even come close in terms of efficiency. IMHO it's a great shame recent programmers can get their qualifications without understanding C/C++. It can be a steep learning curve, but the hard work pays off, and translates well in trying to make 'higher level' interpreted languages as efficient as possible. In my experience, you can spot a programmer without C/C++ skills a mile away: you don't have to use it for the task at hand, but it sure helps as a basis for understanding what's going on in higher level languages.
In reply to No. C++ is not outdated at… by Lofo
It is a shame that programmers can get their qualifications without having programmed in assembler/machine language on even one architecture. This is like a composer not having studied counterpoint.
In reply to It is a shame that… by [DELETED] 1831606
It may not be that useful on a basic programming course but I would hope that it is still part of university undergraduate degrees. It is certainly the most fundamental type of programming and still has relevance, e.g. PLC programming of older manufacturing machines.
I think that Clive Sinclair, (pioneer of cheap home computers back in the 1980's, based on the Z80A processor), cracked a clever joke regarding the name of his 1-person electric vehicle. It was called the Sinclair C5 and Z80 programmers knew that the hex instruction "C5" meant "Push BC". Sinclair seemed to be indicating that his vehicle was really a glorified Push BiCycle!
In reply to It may not be that useful on… by yonah_ag
I don't exactly get the joke. What does "Push BC" mean?
In reply to I don't exactly get the joke… by William Halsted
It is an assembler instruction to save the BC register
In reply to I don't exactly get the joke… by William Halsted
So whilst touting his "electric vehicle" he was telling us, in code, that it was really just a glorified push bike. It was ahead of its time and could probably be very useful these days. "Push BC" sounds and looks like "Push BiCycle" or "Push Bike".
"Push BC" is indeed an assembler instruction to save the contents of the BC register to the stack and its machine code is C5 in hexadecimal, 11000101 in binary.
In reply to So whilst touting his … by yonah_ag
In what hardware architecture, pray tell.
In reply to In what hardware… by [DELETED] 1831606
Z80, 8-bit processor running at 3.5 MHz in the 1980's ZX Spectrum - also invented by Sir Clive Sinclair.
Here's the full instruction set:
http://map.grauw.nl/resources/z80instr.php
(We seem to have gone so what off topic)
In reply to Z80 processor running at 3.5… by yonah_ag
Ah. I've programmed the 8080, the Adam (or Eve) of today's x86 famiiy, but never the Z80.
In reply to Ah. I've programmed the 8080… by [DELETED] 1831606
Z80 assembler is simpler. I wrote a graphics library in 8086 assembler for use with a commercial Pipe Stress Analysis System, (for chemical plants, power stations etc.), written in Fortran.
In reply to Ah. I've programmed the 8080… by [DELETED] 1831606
Not exactly… the assembly language of the 8080 differs vastly, it’s chiefly an 8-bit CPU, whereas x86 started with the 16-bit 8086 (and its 8-bit-data-bus-so-we-can-reuse-existing-mainboard-designs variant, the 8088, a year later); the current 32-bit and 64-bit instructions are more-or-less logical extensions of the 16-bit instruction set of the 8086 (including the binary opcode construction, such as the mod reg r/m bits).
Compare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_8080#Example_code with…
// entry registers:
// CX - number of bytes to copy
// DS:SI - address of source data block
// ES:DI - address of destination data block
memcpy:
cld
rep movsb
ret
OK, that’s cheating. Here it is using the same construct:
memcpy:
or cx,cx
jnz Lloop
ret
Lloop:
mov al,[si]
inc si
mov es:[di],al
inc di
dec cx
jnz Lloop
ret
In reply to It is a shame that… by [DELETED] 1831606
Even better, they could learn a functional language, like Haskell - though I'm not sure I like the way that some functional languages went in recent years. I have not been convinced that monads are the way to go, though some of my friends like that.
Re speed and efficiency - just in time compiling is pretty good, and can achieve most of the benefits of machine code, while having greater flexibility - and makes languages and systems easier to port to other systems and other hardware.
In reply to Even better, they could… by dave2020X
Declarative and functional languages have significant advantages over procedural languages such as C++ as they specify what is to be done, rather than how to do it. Strong typing reduces the likelihood of errors, and additionally proof checkers can validate the code.
Program generators also can be used to give greater reliability - and for very large scale projects are used rather than having programmers hand coding and possibly making very dangerous errors.
In reply to I have coding experience,… by William Halsted
To some extent all programming languages are kind of sort of similar - I mean, they all have ways of saying things like "if x equals y then do z", even if the details are different. But no, C++ is not particularly like Python otherwise. C++ is a traditional compiled language. Python, like Javascript, is interpreted (Java is actually kind of middle ground). This ends up making a big difference in the experience of actually writing in and using the language.
C++ is, I would have to imagine, the single most popular programming language in the world for applications like MuseScore - full-scale standalone programs with their own GUI, etc. But it's true that C++, like other traditional compiled languages such as C, is mostly used for this type of application, as opposed to smaller tools or mobile or web apps. That's where you mostly see use of interpreted languages like Python or JavaScript. That's a huge overgeneralization of course, but it's definitely more true than saying C++ is outdated :-).
Bottom line, large GUI-based applications like MuseScore are almost always written in a traditional compiled language like C++. FWIW, Finale, Sibelius, and Dorico are also written in C++.
In reply to To some extent all… by Marc Sabatella
I see. Thanks for explaining. I suppose old would be a better way to describe C++; old but still useful. Python is quite a bit newer, I believe. My dad tells stories of college, where he would set up a program on a computer to do an equation, come back after lunch, and find out the general area where that "ball" would have landed. He used Fortran and some variety(ies) of C for the stuff he did.
In reply to I see. Thanks for explaining… by William Halsted
Well that's the thing, program languages are developed just like the programs themselves. Just as python is always being developed, the latest C++ standard was last year. BSG pointed out that musescore 3 was on the 2011 standard. Standards mean more features that programmers can take advantage of.
In reply to I see. Thanks for explaining… by William Halsted
"Venerable" rather than "old". Both C++ and Python date from the 1990's and have evolved. C is from the late 1960's, Fortran from the1950's. It was not uncommon in the punched-card era to bring your cards to the computer center and come back later for the printout, but the time delay was not computation, but handling physical media and people.
In reply to I see. Thanks for explaining… by William Halsted
C++, Python, and JavaScript were all created within a few years of each other back in the (19)80's-90's. So while C++ is indeed a few years older than Python, none of these are remotely anything like "new". And it is that long history that makes them so popular and useful, with such widespread support across almost all operating systems and hardware.
In reply to C++, Python, and Javascript… by Marc Sabatella
And none are anything like "old" : ) (cf, Fortran, PL/I, Algol, COBOL, SNOBOL, Simula, Smalltalk, Lisp, APL, ... even C ... etc...)
In reply to I have coding experience,… by William Halsted
Python is used for AI (Artificial intelligence).
In reply to Python is used for AI … by TheLightningPianist
Only somewhat. Python is used in machine learning and similar types of regression in the typical python way: Implement cheap things in python, and expensive things in C-Libraries. So we have python modules like tensorflow that offer ML functionality in python, where you can quickly write programs with it. But the whole backend is a C-Library. If you’d implement ML in pure python it would be unusably slow. You could could say: Python is used as a layer to connect components written in C.
In reply to We have not built… by Tantacrul
Great... I bought Note Performer because you guys said you were going to support it.
In reply to Great, I bought it because… by rockum
Yeah, it seems a little odd to announce NotePerformer support and then just not add it and then not tell anyone that it's not actually gonna happen until a year later. I'm also very disappointed. A new playback system sounds great and all, but I very much doubt that it's going to have the quality of Noteperformer without spending a stupid amount of time tweaking playback
In reply to Yeah, it seems a little odd… by L'Moose
I was telling people back when the support was announced that I wasn't sure it was as easy as people thought. The issue is that MuseScore 4 only has VST3 support (no VST2 support) and NotePerformer is VST2 only, with no VST3 support. It likely isn't practical to rewrite NotePerformer for VST3 until Finale and Sibelius support VST3, otherwise it would be like going from developing one product to developing two completely different products. Arne said he was going to try to develop a bridge (a shim) to allow the VST2 NotePerformer to be used in VST3 hosts, specifically for MuseScore, but I'm guessing this was unsuccessful due to the enormous difference between the VST2 and VST3 spec.
Unless a bridging solution can be found, I suspect there may not be NotePerformer support in MuseScore until MakeMusic and Avid add VST3 support into their notation products, which would allow NotePerformer to be rewritten for VST3 and would then work with Finale, Sibelius, Dorico and MuseScore.
In reply to I was telling people back… by Michael Ducharme
Merci pour ce commentaire instructif. Quelque soient les orientations futures, une lecture des liaisons de phrasé dans Musescore 4 serait déjà la bienvenue☺️
In reply to Great, I bought it because… by rockum
FWIW, this was the original plan but we since Muse has since acquired a similar technology, we felt it made much more sense dedicating our resources to supporting that external plugin - which will be free - rather than one that people need to pay quite a bit of money for.
I'm sorry you felt the need to purchase NP so early. We never anticipated people would do that.
In reply to FWIW, this was the original… by Tantacrul
Huh interesting. I wonder how this will to build a free plugin was made. I mean there was NotePerformer.
But you know :D it will truly be interesting if it supports all platforms (Windows, MacOS, Linux, BSD)
Anyway thanks.
In reply to Huh interesting. I wonder… by [DELETED] 32872726
Go to MuseScore.com and listen to any score and you'll have your answer :D
It is in our interests to provide excellent playback for free because:
1. It means more people will use and enjoy MuseScore
2. It means people interacting with MuseScore.com will have a vastly improved experience when listening to scores.
Incidentally, we've also got VST and VSTi support in MS4, which we will be building upon in later releases. I want to begin building relationships with other free plugins so that users can download and install them too.
In reply to Go to MuseScore.com and… by Tantacrul
I'm gonna assume that you mean the playback just doesn't sound good right now. Which I agree with if that's the case.
Also, I was impressed because I didn't expect this open source project to be able to also plan plugins when it has to "refresh" the whole software. But seems like I was wrong. Heh.
I mean, even Blender provides the base software for free but some plugins are not made for free in order to support the project's development with money... I think.
In reply to Go to MuseScore.com and… by Tantacrul
I think when Tantacrul writes “free” he really means “gratis”, not “free/libre” ☹
In reply to I think when Tantacrul… by mirabilos
Yes... But what if both? ;)
In reply to I think when Tantacrul… by mirabilos
Probably not possible concerning the architecture of MuseScore and maybe I'm wrong, but in best case it should be available for these features to offer them optional as additional extensions, so there's no need to change the license.
In reply to We have not built… by Tantacrul
Sorry to hear that. Noteperformer compatibility was the biggest feature I was looking forward to in Musescore 4. Any sense of when that might happen?
When I'm the customer, or in this case the user, I always tell people who are producing what I'd like to get, "I'm willing to wait if what I'm waiting for is great." Just keep at it guys.
Also, it seems like there should be one more stage between Complete and Ready, and that is Tested. I don't know if it can be done, but third party testers with different platforms should try out the new fixes or features to make sure it's "box-ready," that is, truly complete, ready to ship, as it were.
One other thing: I am currently learning Qt's Quick scripting language to assemble the Ornament Editor that I and others have requested in the past. Is the same scripting language going to be used? If so, will there be any changes to the variables, controls, or UI design for MuseScore 4?
In reply to When I'm the customer, or in… by harbinger
There are big changes to the UI design which you can already see in the nightly builds. Feel free to play around with the QML files, but please reach out to us in the Discord Server before you put any serious effort into designing and building anything. If we like your proposal and think it is feasible then we may be able to help you turn it into a proper design.
Will the plugin API be available?
In reply to Will the plugin API be… by yonah_ag
I assume the plugin API will be available, but it might change somewhat, because both the UI and the technical architecture of MuseScore 4 are different.
Anyway, I created a development task about it here: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/8859
So probably it won't be forgotten.
Will this version of Musescore be compatible with the same devices as Musescore 3, or are you limiting on older devices for this version?
In reply to Will this version of… by noah_schettler
Their main limitation is what QT supports, if QT drops support for a certain OS, then there is only so much they can do.
In reply to Their main limitation is… by Joshua Pettus
And that indeed means the support for macOS 10.10-10.12(?) will get dropped
In reply to And that indeed means the… by Jojo-Schmitz
And 10.13 - High Sierra, not supported by the nightly build which states that 10.14 required.
In reply to And 10.13 - High Sierra, not… by [DELETED] 37205164
That may change for releases, but won't for the nightly builds
In reply to And 10.13 - High Sierra, not… by [DELETED] 37205164
Where do you see for nightly build which states that macOS 10.14 is required? Qt 5.15 against which MuseScore is being developed, supports macOS 10.13 and up.
We track the various OS, Qt version (and even Macs by year released) and how they relate to MuseScore versions at Developer's handbook - Versions Reference.
In reply to Where do you see for nightly… by Riaan van Niekerk
It needs to be built for 10.13 too, IIRC
In reply to Where do you see for nightly… by Riaan van Niekerk
I'm just reporting back on trying to install on High Sierra and being informed that it needs 10.14 to run....try it.
In reply to I'm just reporting back on… by [DELETED] 37205164
Thank you. I have reported it as [MU4 Issue] nightly does not run on macOS 10.13 #8858.
Sounds very organized and I'm looking forward to the replacement of the 'Synthesiser' window functionality, which always felt somehow a bit odd. Integration into the Mixer sounds like it makes much more sense.
Thanks so much for these updates Martin!
Great news. Any plans for ornaments (trills, mordents) with accidental in v4?
Also, I'm confused with new work on piano-roll view. Sequencer view should be a better solution than piano-roll view (everything that can be done in piano-roll view should be possible in sequencer view), so there will be no need for piano-roll view any more? Is it just temporary solution? If it is, it looks to me that you plan sequencer view in a far distant future.
In reply to Great news. Any plans for… by hstanekovic
For the internal team, MuseScore 4.0 is mainly about the UI rather than notation, but we may see some notation improvements in a subsequent minor release (4.1 or 4.2, etc.). We might see them sooner if a talented community member steps forward to implement them, but only if they don't involve major changes to the internal model (ornaments with accidentals should be ok in this regard, at least in terms of notation, maybe not playback at first).
Similarly, the full Sequencer view has been postponed for a future release, but if a community member steps forward then we may be able to provide an improved piano roll sooner, which would be the first step towards a full Sequencer later on. The internal team is ready to provide design support to anybody with developer skills who is able to contribute in these areas, or in other areas that we consider important but won't be able to implement ourselves in the near future.
I hope this is not a "silly question", but the major architectural departures outlined force me to ask it: Will MS4 be able to play MS2/MS3 scores with the current sound fonts? Some of us have put a lot of work into making our scores sound "right".
In reply to I hope this is not a "silly… by [DELETED] 1831606
FluidSynth will still be available with the default SoundFont (MuseScore General), so most people's score will sound the same, or very nearly the same, as how they sounded in MuseScore 3.
If you opt-in to using the new playback system then your score will sound very different to how it did before. Hopefully it will sound much better than before, but you might find that you need to tweak a few things that you had previously optimized for the old playback system.
If your score used Zerberus (.sfz) rather than FluidSynth (.sf2/.sf3) then you will be forced to switch to FluidSynth or the new playback system, but not many people used Zerberus and the new system will be much better anyway.
In reply to FluidSynth will still be… by shoogle
This all sounds like what I was hoping for, thanks.
In reply to FluidSynth will still be… by shoogle
I hope it will be FluidSynth 2.x version, not the same old FluidSynth.
I'm hoping that the new Zerberus sampler/synthesiser and its playback system will allow Musescore users to easily set track voices to separate channels, so we can score pitch bend in one voice while notes in other voices stay unbent. As described here.
Naturally I have the same hopes for VST in Musescore 4.x. I don't know much about VST, but surely it's General MIDI compliant (or follows MIDI 2.0) and would inherently support that. And there are definitely some VST libraries, like those at Iindiginus.com, that I'd love to to purchase and use with Musescore.
Will the plugins continued to be supported and the bugs in the plugin API corrected?
In reply to Will the plugins continued… by avronp
Very good questions.
Thanks for the insights.
The AppImages of the MuseScore 4.x Nightly versions still don't work with OpenSuse because of the missing glibc dependencies. Probably it needs a similar fix as for MuseScore 3.5.1 some time ago: https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/6630#issuecomment-7047985…?
(For the 3.x nightlies it's already fixed).
If it is possible...could you PLEASE make the brass section sound smoother than the way it does at the moment esp. the trumpet? It is hard to come by free sound founts, less having one where the brass section is a little smooth.
I use a Chinese system. I downloaded a compressed file of the latest version of musescore4 from the development page. After running the software with NVDA reading software, I can’t perform any operations and there is no way to operate it.
I use a Chinese system. I downloaded a compressed file of the latest version of musescore4 from the development page. After running the software with NVDA reading software, I can’t perform any operations and there is no way to operate it.
In reply to I use a Chinese system. I… by nicotomia
Indeed, development is still ongoing and is not even close to usable yet. There will be further announcements when it is more ready for testing.
In reply to Indeed, development is still… by Marc Sabatella
Way off topic, but you have to be Matthew's brother... I was wondering, so I looked you up on Facebook and saw he was one of our two mutual friends. He visited me in Nashville a few years back when he had a house concert in town. We met at U.M. many years ago. I think I was the T.A. of his freshman theory class. We worked on a project together at a small studio a few years later. Great sense of humor and a heck of a musician. Love that guy.
In reply to Way off topic, but you have… by rockum
Yep, we're brothers all right - and I love that guy too :-)
I'm curious as to how things are going to work for microtonal composers like me. In MuseScore 3, I have to use the inspector to manually tune individual notes, and I don't know if this is going to be carried over from MuseScore 3, or if new systems for dealing with microtonality will be considered later on.
In reply to I'm curious as to how things… by X-Watcher
Yes and yes. Inspector tunings (or a very similar system) will be carried over from MuseScore 3 to the initial release of MuseScore 4.0. A better system will be considered later on, possibly in MuseScore 4.1 or 4.2, but probably much later in the 4 series given the number of other things we have planned. You'll probably find that you get a nicer way to do it manually (e.g. via Piano Roll instead of via the Inspector) before you get a way to do it automatically based on special microtonal accidentals.
In reply to Yes and yes. The inspector… by shoogle
Hmm... If the Piano Roll will be the better functionality for later, then I just hope I get to divide the octave into as many as 159, seeing as I tend to use 159edo a lot- I'm not kidding, I've actually written songs using that many notes per octave. As for accidentals, I do have some ideas for a system planned for 159edo, but I'd have to talk to someone about how to make those.
How wonderful... all those contributions make me so ashamed of myself for not taking part in any of those projects out there... At least I should put at good use Musescore and recreate all of Stravinsky's rare-or-not scores with the new fonts teehee.
Wait, why is the major announcement after the stable release? The stable release is not the "first official" Musescore 4? I'm not sure how to explain that..
In reply to Wait, why is the major… by [DELETED] 32872726
There is no stable MuseScore 4 yet and won't be before December
In reply to There is no stable MuseScore… by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes, but if you check the diagram.... the "major announcement" (which I suspect announces the stable version?) comes after the stable release... doesn't the announcement usually come WITH the release?
In reply to Yes, but if you check the… by [DELETED] 32872726
No, a few days later, to catch last minute regressions
In reply to No, a few days later, to… by Jojo-Schmitz
Oh, alright, thanks.
In reply to Oh, alright, thanks. by [DELETED] 32872726
OH WAIT- I also want to ask... automatic updates? This seems new. Why not optional?
In reply to OH WAIT- I also want to ask… by [DELETED] 32872726
They are automatic(ally offered and installed if confirmed) since quite a while.
In reply to They are automatic since… by Jojo-Schmitz
Oh, THAT you mean. Okay.
In reply to Oh, THAT you mean. Okay. by [DELETED] 32872726
I believe that is meant.
I am so happy to hear about so innovative Musescore future step, GREAT!
I would like to ask if there will be Linux version and is it possible to implement "Live notes input"? Playing on the keybord puts notes into the score live. This is verry helpful function and I miss this option.
Anyway, I am waiting for new Musescore and I'm looking forward.
In reply to I am so happy to hear about… by ficmarcin
Do you mean you can play and the notes will be in corporated into a score, or alternatively that you can also "play along" with a score - for example in a live performance? I think it is possible to do the first of these already, though the results if you're trying to input a score will depend on how accurately you play.
“This will not be packaged with MuseScore but can be downloaded and activated (for free) once the application has been installed.”
What will/is the workflow for packagers supposed to be? I’d definitely want to ship things like that as Debian packages so they install without getting online (and tracked). Same for the effects.
In reply to “This will not be packaged… by mirabilos
Installing optional add-ons requires an internet connection and add-ons may only be installed directly through MuseScore online services (as is currently done for Resource Manager).
It will not be possible to make these available through any alternative channels or means of installation.
In reply to Installing optional add-ons… by Daniel
Current extensions are though.. You can download muxt directly and load them locally..
In reply to Current extensions are… by jeetee
Correct. But for MS4 will be online only.
In reply to Correct. But for MS4 will be… by Daniel
Is this official?
This will be the death of Libre MuseScore as included in e.g. GNU/Linux distributions, then.
🤦
In reply to Is this official? This will… by mirabilos
These are add-ons, not required for the core functionality of the application.
In reply to These are add-ons, not… by Daniel
Yeah, but I bet you people WILL reply “just install the proprietary add-on then” and ignore problems of users of libre mu͒4.
In reply to Yeah, but I bet you people… by mirabilos
There is no libre MuseScore 4 vs. non-libre MuseScore 4, only a single application distributed under GPLv3 license.
Optional add-ons may or may not be compatible with GPLv3.
It will be up to the user to choose to install any add-ons, or not, just as it happens now.
In reply to There is no libre MuseScore… by Daniel
> " just as it happens now"
Except for the part where you stated "online via MuseScore resources only"..
EDIT: to clarify, I'm not stating that there shouldn't be add-ons which are non-free/non-libre (even non-gratis) and which can be delivered via MuseScore services exclusively. I'm stating against the fact that you'd limit add-ons to those MuseScore service provided ones; which is taking a step backwards from the current MS3 possibilities.
They don't have to be (and shouldn't imho) mutually exclusive.
In reply to > " just as it happens now"… by jeetee
My point was simply that the optional add-ons created and released by MuseScore BVBA will only be able to be downloaded and installed online visa MuseScore resources.
This comment was in response to request to ship the optional playback add-on for MS4 as a Debian package, which is not an option as it will not be open source and will only be distributed through MuseScore.
Anyone is free to create their own extensions or plugins and distribute them however they see fit (including through MuseScore). Any self-made/self-distributed extension is installable by simply dragging it onto a MuseScore window.
In reply to My point was simply that the… by Daniel
I obviously misread your response. Apologies and thanks for the clarification.
In reply to There is no libre MuseScore… by Daniel
I admire how elegantly you worded this to avoid the issue at hand. Very politician.
In reply to Correct. But for MS4 will be… by Daniel
Let's hope the delivery process works better than the one from MS3 currently... (failed download messages anyone?).
Also.. how will this deal then with currently already existing custom user muxts? Will you automatically provide hosting and distribution for all of them?
I can only say that I'm very excited about the date of release and I think this is a step in the right direction. The only thing that I would like to change in musecore is adding a professional layout to the score. Meaning having a frame decoration and a template for an opening page introduction and the like.
In reply to I can only say that I'm very… by Roieh123
Musescore gives you the possibility to add images, I don't know if it lets you add frames though. But with small effort, you can easily make a nice opening page with Inkscape or illustrator or any such programs.
But yes, maybe that's a good idea to add.
Speaking of professional stuff, I've seen some "engravers" complain about how NO composing software (except the old style ones like SCORE) seems to be great, by default, for making "classic looking" scores, more specifically, some lines seem to be really thin, for what companies engrave usually. I personally feel like it has been improved with the last update, but it still seems like an "incomplete" side.
Of course everything is customizable but the thing is to avoid touching those if possible. Perhaps I need to open a new thread for it? Or there already is one?
In reply to Musescore gives you the… by [DELETED] 32872726
Even Elaine Gould recommends (in her keynote of the engraving conference last year) to do the title pages in a different program then combine them for printing only. Doing this in notation software, which is absolutely not up to the task of the very detailled requirements (it can’t even justify text! MS Word 4 for DOS could do that in the 1980s!) and to use the right tool for the job is necessary, otherwise you have one tool which sucks at all tasks.
Is there any chance I could be an Alpha tester?
In reply to Is there any chance I could… by Musiclove975
Sure, just download the development builds from https://musescore.org/en/download#Development-builds, the ones for "MuseScore 4.x (master)" and "nightly". Might be more pre-Alpha though...
In reply to Sure, just download the… by Jojo-Schmitz
Which link would I click to find them?
In reply to Which link would I click to… by classicalmemes
The one above your post
In reply to Is there any chance I could… by Musiclove975
As per the graphic in the OP, the projected date for reaching "alpha" level is September 15. So, still several months to go before that. But you're certainly welcome to download and test nightly builds anyhow - just don't expect much yet!
Pardon me for asking a question which is probably a bit ignorant. I'm not a musician, but my wife is (shameless plug http://pamelayork.com ). For years my wife has used Finale primarily for transcription purposes. Is Musescore comparable to Finale in being able to attach a keyboard, play, and have the notes show up on a score? I've moved the whole family to Linux sometime ago, but we need to keep her on Windows, because she needs a good tool for musical transcription. If there was a option for musical notation software for her to use on Linux, then I would probably move her over since it would be easier for me to administrate all the home computers that way. Thanks!
In reply to Pardon me for asking a… by aaylnx
You should really create a new post in the Support Forum to ask this question because it isn't related to the topic of this post. Anyway, the Handbook explains different ways to enter notes. The Real-time modes are closest to what you are looking for, though they are far from perfect.
In reply to Pardon me for asking a… by aaylnx
Before you drift off to another part of this forum I would suggest that it may well be possible, though depends exactly what you want to do and what hardware interfaces you use.
Why not just download MS (to Windows) and spend an hour or two trying it out? I have had several keyboards and other kit all working - some with their own inbuilt sounds, and also with the computer sounds. If you have the connecting cables and interfaces, or suitable Bluetooth interfaces, you may be able to get something working in an hour or two. If it does what you want in Windows, then see if it'll migrate as you hope to Linux.
If there are problems they are quite likely to be related to the connections - which can be somewhat iffy - though I can't say how things will work with Windows as I use Macs mostly now.
It's possible that for quality or other reasons it may not compare with Finale, though I think it's improving all the time. Depends if it delivers what you want.
when is it going to be released?
In reply to when is it going to be… by TheBlockofSwis…
Read the 1st article, it has a timeline
In reply to when is it going to be… by TheBlockofSwis…
There's a "Timeline" in this very announcement you commented on, @latonyahutchi.
I am writing for Concert band, Orchestra and Chorus, and I’m really interested in the Spitfire instrument libraries (although they are expensive). Can I use them with Musescore?
In reply to I am writing for Concert… by Bmusd
Spitfire Audio has free and low-cost libraries, which I am getting ready to purchase. Choral libraries are definitely going to be expensive, but below are some links to free and low cost libraries.
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/originals/
https://www.spitfireaudio.com/shop/a-z/bbc-symphony-orchestra-discover/
https://labs.spitfireaudio.com/
In reply to I am writing for Concert… by Bmusd
And don't forget that Christian Henson led part of Spitfire that is Pianobook - an ever expanding library of free sampled instruments: Pianobook
In reply to And don't forget that… by rocchio
The both of you please note that there’s a distinction between free/gratis (e.g. Pianobook) and free/libre (e.g. MuseScore). It’s unfortunate that the English language, unlike so many others, doesn’t have this distinction implicit in the wording, but it’s important.
In reply to The both of you please note… by mirabilos
What is the difference? Thanks for bringing this topic to the table.
In reply to And don't forget that… by rocchio
Oooh thanks for the resources.
I hope it's already released, it seems to be a great improvement!
Are there any plans on implementing a "real-time collaboration" functionality?
In reply to I hope it's already released… by Joshua Mastachi
If you read the initial post, you'd see that a release is planned for December
Is Musescore 4 still free?
In reply to Is Musescore 4 still free? by t.joseph2326_piano
Depends. GPLv3 is definitely less free than GPLv2, but it’s still no less Free Software and Open Source Software than MuseScore 2 and 3 were. But it’s not yet finished, who knows what will be done… there seems to be a movement towards offloading prior core functionality into “downloadable addons”; these may or may not be Free, and this certainly seems to imply “phoning home”, which violates privacy standards. But we’ll see what they deliver when they deliver.
In reply to Depends. GPLv3 is definitely… by mirabilos
GPLv3 is Free Open Source Software. That is all that matters in this context.
I don't think there's anything that was a core feature in MS3 that will be demoted to an addon in MS4.
And I don't know why you think they won't be free - if there ever were addons that weren't free they would probably be for things like Noteperformer, or commercial VST effects.
How does having downloadable addons violate privacy standards?
In reply to GPLv3 is Free Open Source… by jagree
This may remind of Blender. One of the reason it goes strong is that it's free, but some add-ons are not, so that people can pay for them and help the development of Blender continue.
I don't think there's any other project doing it this way. Most usually setup a page for donating. Maybe blender has one too.
In reply to Depends. GPLv3 is definitely… by mirabilos
1.3% of MuseScore users are using some flavor of Linux.
Based on this, you can infer that 98.7% of users are likely referring to cost when they speak about MuseScore being free. :-)
In reply to 1.3% of MuseScore users are… by Daniel
Which is why the word “free” should be avoided and “libre” vs. “gratis” should be used. (English is unfortunate in that “free” can mean either; in German, we have separate words for this, though “libre” translates into the literal vocabulary for “free”.)
In reply to Is Musescore 4 still free? by t.joseph2326_piano
Yes, MuseScore 4 will be free and open source like MuseScore 3 and all previous versions. It will be under version 3 of the GPL instead of version 2, but that mainly affects developers, not users.
Will the alpha release be able to be accessed by everyone? Or just a select few? And if it is a select few, is there a way for me to be one of those select few?
Also, how will VST support work in MuseScore 4? For example, some libraries only have select articulations, like legato and staccato, and if you would want to accent the note, would it not work or would MuseScore 4 be able to recognize when you want a note to be accented, just play the legato note louder and a little bit shorter than usual?
In reply to Will the alpha release be… by classicalmemes
Read the initial poist, it has a timeline, which does mentione an Alpha release
In reply to Read the initial poist, it… by Jojo-Schmitz
Jojo, the question was whether the Alpha release will be available to the public.
I would say "yes". :-)
I think it might be a bit early to give any details on the VST functionality.
In reply to Jojo, the question was… by RobFog
Of course. Else announcing it publicly won't make sense
In reply to Jojo, the question was… by RobFog
I could actually imagine an official alpha program with feedback forms and so forth that would be by invitation.
Not sure if that will be a thing or not, but either way, anyone cat any time can install a nightly build - you can even do that today if you like, although it largely won't work yet. So even if you're not part of any "official" alpha program that may or may not happen, you would be able to install the nightly build on that day just as surely as you can on any other day, and test for yourself.
In reply to I could actually imagine an… by Marc Sabatella
That will be nice. Thanks a lot. Sorry for the late reply.
In reply to Jojo, the question was… by RobFog
Thanks a lot. Sorry for the late reply.
Lots of VSTs need Kontakt to host their plugin or whatnot, and I was wondering if Kontakt would be able to be used on MuseScore 4 as I haven't found an answer to that yet, and if not, many sound libraries wouldn't work which would be a little disappointing. Thanks to anyone who has information about this.
In reply to Lots of VSTs need Kontakt to… by classicalmemes
I just responded to your dedicated thread but I'll paste my reply here to.
"Your terminology is a little mixed up. Kontakt (both full and player) runs as a VSTi/AUi/AAX plugin or standalone application. Sample libraries made for Kontakt are NKI files, they are not VSTs.
If Musescore is able to host VSTi or AUi plugins then I see no reason why it won't be able to run Kontakt and therefore Kontakt based libraries."
In reply to I just responded to your… by reddiesel41264
Yep, I saw. Thanks a lot :)
quick question , could you please add a way to use kontakt and other plugins for musescore ? since you're taking away the ability to add soundfonts , i beg for you to please add a way to use kontakt and other vst plugins like izotope and stuff- thank you ! :]
In reply to quick question , could you… by @anxious._kiddo
Are you asking for something in addition to what the announcement already says about the VST support that is already planned?
will there be new instruments and updates to others (like soundfont changes)?
Okay, I have not one but two feature requests. The first is for MPE support (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIDI#MIDI_Polyphonic_Expression), while the second is for effect automation. Oh, and I have a third request related to the piano roll functionality- the ability to support Equal Divisions of the Octave as large as 171. This requires piano roll functionality to be a bit different from standard- or at least that seems to be the case. I'm requesting these things because although I've largely been inactive on this site, I've actually been using MuseScore for a while now, and since I've gotten into microtonality, it would be great to see stuff like this. I should also mention that, as of right now, when I try and export microtonal stuff to a MIDI file, all the microtonal stuff is completely wiped out in the process.
In reply to Okay, I have not one but two… by X-Watcher
If this place is not the place to post the aforementioned feature requests for MuseScore 4, where do I post them?
In reply to If this place is not the… by X-Watcher
It's one place among others. I'm not familiar about such topics of midi events and if it's possible anything in any way with MuseScore at time or not, but in case it's would make be sense for a music notation application in future, maybe also report it here as suggestion: https://musescore.org/en/node/add/project_issue?pid=1236.