[MusicXML] Multiple acciaccatura appear as multiple appoggiatura
1. Open attached score.
2. 'Save As'.
3. 'MusicXML'.
4. 'Save'.
5. Open MusicXML.
Result: In MuseScore 1.1 and Finale NotePad 2012.r1, they appear as multiple appoggiatura.
Discussion: They import fine in MuseScore 2.0 Nightly Build (5336).
Using Finale NotePad 2012.r1, MuseScore 1.1 and 2.0 Nightly Build (5336) - Mac 10.6.8.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Multiple Acciaccatura Appear As Multiple Appoggiatura.mscz | 1.92 KB |
| MuseScore 1.1.png | 21.35 KB |
| Finale NotePad 2012.r1.png | 286.84 KB |
| MuseScore 2.0 Nightly Build (5336).png | 22.63 KB |
Comments
You won't see the slash appear in 1.1 because of this: #11778: Stroke on multiple acciaccatura doesn't appear after save
Verified with current branch (most urgent as 1.2 should be out soon):
- the attached MuseScore file indeed starts with two acciaccaturas
- these are both correctly exported to MusicXML as notes with "grace slash=yes"
- if the MusicXML file is imported into MuseScore, once again two acciaccaturas are present
This all seems quite OK to me (although I may be missing a finer detail), so what exactly is the issue here ?
I did see that about the slash in the MusicXML.
It could be a limitation of Finale NotePad 2012 - I can't confirm with the full version (can you?). It doesn't appear in Harmony Assistant 9.6.2 either, however.
No, I am also using Finale NotePad 2012. I don't have the full version either.
I was informed by Finale that this is a limitation in NotePad 2012 (to add the slashes, at least).
I'm still curious if the full versions of both (Finale and Harmony Assistant), or indeed any other software that imports MusicXML, acknowledges them.
Although single and multiple acciaccatura show strokes when importing MusicXML into MuseScore 2.0 Nightly Build (5516), Finale NotePad 2012 and Harmony Assistant 9.6.2 don't for multiple acciaccatura.
Could someone go through the five steps (using the trunk for steps 1-4) in the original post and check full versions of other software (e.g. Sibelius and Finale)?
Surely multiple acciaccaturas of this kind are theoretically impossible.
An acciaccatura is a timeless note, performed by striking the grace note at the same time as the main note and then releasing it almost immediately. To have a prior acciaccatura before that makes a nonsense as that too should be struck at the same time as the main note, and should therefore be placed under or over the other.
It seems to me that the notation intended here is a pair of unaccented appoggiaturas, which look no different from ordinary, accented appoggiaturas, but are performed by taking time from the preceding note, not the main note.
A good reason for MuseScore not to support it.
The score in the original post is a transcription of 'Amoreena' (has two timeless notes, if you listen carefully) - what about this ?
Like other ornaments, etc, grace notes are too ambiguous, causing all this bother.
Finale NotePad 2012 deliberately doesn't support acciaccatura (limitation, as confirmed by them), whilst I don't know about Harmony Assistant 0.9.2.
The full version of Finale 2012 imports MusicXML the same as Finale Notepad 2012 (I checked this instance, but I'm sure that support for MusicXML import in Finale 2012 and Notepad 2012 is identical).
Anyway, since the nightly build for 2.0 behaves correctly and MuseScore 1.2 is no longer maintained can we close this as "won't fix"?
Thanks David.
I'd like to confirm with Sibelius (and perhaps another one) too just to be certain there's no oversight in the MusicXML export.
Otherwise, I think I'd be happy to close this.
What exactly are you looking to confirm with Sibelius?
Sibelius 7 also doesn't acknowledge multiple acciaccatura in MusicXML.
I find it surprising that all these softwares aren't acknowledging them. Is it certain that everything's correct in MuseScore export?
If so, you can close.
As I've already commented - it is a somewhat oddball thing from a theoretical point of view.
Which is probably why neither Finale nor Sibelius support it.
The attached file demonstrates its use (play in 2.0 and compare with original ).
It can be done in LilyPond and was told that it's demonstrated in Elaine Gould's 'Behind Bars'.
As performed by Elton John in the link those are not acciaccatura - they are played before the main note, together with the bass note, and not simultaneously and are therefore an accented double appoggiatura.as they are taking time from the main note.
Whatever Elaine Gould may say about the notation is at odds with the actual definition of an acciaccatura as defined in the keyboard interpretation manuals of the French harpsichord masters amongst others.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/acciaccatura
Modern interpretation, notation and instruction on grace notes are far too imprecise, and permitting sloppiness of this kind just increases the confusion.
I slowed down an AIFF (attached) from CD in Audacity.
The second and third sets of grace notes I would probably agree now are not acciaccatura.
I'm not sure about the first set, however.
Marking as fixed since 2.0 supports this.
Automatically closed -- issue fixed for 2 weeks with no activity.