individual text style is not imported from V2-score

• Oct 27, 2018 - 11:31
Reported version
3.0
Priority
P0 - Critical
Type
Functional
Frequency
Many
Severity
S5 - Suggestion
Reproducibility
Always
Status
PR created
Regression
Yes
Workaround
No
Project

I have a score with an individual text style (alt. chords) that had been added by the creator.
It seems that this style is not imported and simply ignored.
See appended score.

Generally it seems that the creation of "own" styles is no more supported - am I right?

Attachment Size
Let s Fall in Love.mscz 36.45 KB

Comments

there are 6 user defined (or rather definable) text styles in 3.0
And this is where user defined ones from 2.x should end up in
There are now also 2 different styles for chord symbols

Should an import then map the user style to one of the 4 predefined styles? If so, I see no problem (but it doesn't work this way in the moment).
About the alternative style: I now see this possibility - but no way, how to define this 2nd style. It does not appear in the list of styles anywhere.

Same problem here. My scores (almost all +/- 900 of them) have an average of 10 additional text styles and I find that only 3 of them (3, not 6, and apparently chosen at random but I didn't investigate this detail) are imported in MS 3.0.1.

This is not a minor issue, as listed above, it is mission-critical ad, yes, it is (at least conceptually) a regression! Text styles have been one of the greatest ideas of MS 2 and, after all the indecision about them in MS 3, I kind of expected things to end up not optimal. If all the text styles in an MS2 score are not going to be imported in MS3, I do not see much alternative to dropping MS 3 and, in perspective, to drop MS altogether.

For sure, I am not going to manually modify 900 score files. I have already done that with MS 1 and then again with MS 2. Luckily there were much fewer files at that times, but I still have not completed the last migration. For sure, I am not starting a new migration again. This assuming MS 3 can ultimately accommodate all the styles I need, if it cannot, then who knows? I find this shortcomings in supporting long term projects one of the major limit in current MS situation.

Just for information, my usual additional text styles are for:

1) Note number (for note numbers in the score, referring to the critical apparatus items)
2) Nigræ (for the signs marking the beginning of coloratio at stave level)
3) Nigræ End (for the signs marking the end of coloratio at stave level)
4) Nigræ High (for the signs marking the beginning of coloratio above stave level)
5) Nigræ High End (for the signs marking the end of coloratio above stave level)
6) Blank page (for texts to be placed in pages left blank)
7) Bowing (for textual bowing indication, like "p" and "t" used in viola da gamba repertoire)
8) Lyrics odd line italics (for lyrics texts marked to be editorial replacements for "ij" symbols)
9) Addition Start (for signs, mostly open parentheses, indicating the start of a filled-in lacuna)
10) Addition End (for signs, mostly closed parentheses, indicating the end of a filled-in lacuna)

For all these items, it is really important to ensure consistency across the files of single edition and across the various editions. Text styles are there for this exact purpose, I assume.

I could possibly do without style 6) and, with additional, pointless bother, without style 8), but not the others. And I really dislike that such a limitation is imposed on users after the fact (i.e. once additional text styles have been usable and used for years in older scores).

I think that raising the limit to slightly above the current maximum number of used additional text styles (JinCoCo in https://musescore.org/en/node/282338 quotes 18, so possibly 25?) is the minimum required to support previous users (those who made MS the success it is) and this limitation should be documented clearly. Still, lifting this hard-coded limit would be the real solution.

Severity S4 - Minor S5 - Suggestion
Frequency Many
Reproducibility Always

On version 2.3.2 If i click a note ex. CTRL T I could change the colour of the text, and all that text would be the colour picked. It now no longer works. Secondly if i Copy that text EX. CTRL T and paste to another CTRl T it pastes but in one Horizontal Line not vertical as the previous version does.

10 months and several MuseScore versions have elapsed and the situation has not changed. A trick has been added (see https://musescore.org/en/node/281805 ) which, however clever, is in my perspective just a less painful way of dying, as it does nothing to fulfil the function text styles should have.

This is currently one major issue preventing me from upgrading to MS 3 (there are others). I understand of course that the inconvenience of just one user is a very little thing in the grand scheme of things. However, after all the time and efforts I have invested in MuseScore in the past, seeing it sailing in a direction I can no longer understand is a bit sad.

I'll try to document the other regressions I am discovering in MS3 but, honestly, I no longer feel very motivated in spending time on a programme I currently have no reason to use.

Sorry to hear this is such an issue for you! Hardly anyone has mentioned this so frankly I at least assumed people were happy with six. I'm sure if you go in and do the work (just a copy/paste basically) to double the number to twelve, no one would complain.

In reply to by Miwarre

Marc and Jojo, thanks for your concern, I appreciate it! (and, yes, I refer to that patch)

To be precise, everywhere it is said 6 user text styles, but I actually find only 4, as the first two user slots are taken by a "Repeat Text" and a "Figured Bass" text style which the programme creates by itself (tested on master of 2-3 days ago).

As I said above, I currently have +900 .MSC? files in MS2 format, ca. 40 score volumes in two series published on http://vistamaremusica.com where each single score is generally made of many source files (Rore's madrigals use 12 score files, Telemann's "6 Quadri" use 17 for about 300 total pages, and so on) and almost as much in the pipe line at different stages of working.

It is easy to imagine how important is for me to ensure that the files of each edition are consistent and also that series present a consistent look and style across volumes. I remain convinced that text styles are an important part of this. It also has some importance to have a uniform basis for the users of my scores ("all/most of my scores can be read with MuseScore x.x") and this would require at some point a bulk conversion; the size of the whole stuff precludes any manual intervention, though.

I could agree that, having had no limit, I didn't limit myself and I used styles -- as the simplest and quickest way -- for things which, with no style available, could have been implemented also otherwise. For instance the 4 styles labelled "Nigræ (something)" in the above list could be replaced by a formatter plug-in, assuming the plug-in API develops enough (and I could surely contribute on this). It would be somehow cumbersome, but bearable.

In any case, the sudden limit on this feature in MS 3 has been a rather hard awakening from a "sweet dream". Also, IIUC, the programme keeps the first 4 custom text styles it finds in the score and I usually have them in the same order in all my scores (as listed in my main .mss), but some of the custom styles are used only in vocal scores, some mostly in Renaissance pieces, other mostly in Baroque pieces.

In fact, perhaps it would be possible to approach the "6 styles per score" limit, but the selection would be different from piece to piece and I cannot possibly go through 900 files to reorder/filter the styles needed in each. And this is where the quoted patch falls short, for all its cleverness.

So, to take Jojo's word, YES! An increase to 10 custom styles (or 10 custom styles + 2 "standard custom" styles) would make life MUCH easier for me.

Well, on a brand new score created from scratch there are 6 user text styles. Probably not when creating a score from a templates that either stems from MuseScore 2 or has created its own variants for some of those, so those "Repeat Text" and "Figured Bass" text style got to be your's.

Such a change/addition would create an issue with reading a score using a downrev version of MuseScore, so would probably have to wait for the next minor release, like 3.4 (it is most probably too late for inclusion in the upcomming 3.3)

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

I see your point, Jojo. With a brand new score, I could possibly/barely live within the 6 user style limit; I would have to devise strategies to import from some repository only the few specific styles needed for the specific score, find alternatives to some styles (like the formatting plug-in I quoted above), etc.

So, live would be definitely more complex than with MS 2, but I could possibly cope.

The big problem are the hundreds of score files I currently have which would not behave correctly in MS 3 any longer; sure, items with non-supported user styles will have their style "frozen in" and look mostly correctly, but any editing with new items or style-wide adjustments would have to be done manually.

So, I would probably keeping both versions in parallel for a very long time, remembering which score was in which format and making life even more complex (to me and to the users of my scores). Luckily, I work on Linux where apps remain compatible and working for a long, long time even when not maintained any more.

As I have waited so far, I could easily wait for MS 3.4... I consider the issue still open, though! 😁

You can install and operate one each of MuseScore 1, 2 and 3 on the same machine at the same time, even on Windows.
I do for example, and too have many scores for either version. I keep them in different folders, one for each version, and on our choirs's website record which version had been used.

Can I have a sample score for testing please?

Edit: I found one... and a bug in my changes with it ;-)
Edit 2: actually at least 3 bugs...

See this image, for importing that score into my changed version:
foo.png
Here actually 2 additional styles would have been sufficcient.
If you have a score that asks for even more, please share...

Attachment Size
BSB_1503h_1_v.mscz 245.78 KB

@Miwarre I encourage you to contact us offline (developer chat on Telegram has now replaced the old IRC and mailing list as main mode of communication, or Development forum if that is more comfortable) to discuss your assessment of remaining priorities. At this point there are no feature regressions I can think of aside from this (which we rarely hear about anymore) and album (which we do hear about). Any number of bugs, sure, but probably as a whole, fewer things that worked in 2.3.2 and don't in 3.2.3 than the reverse. Although FWIW, until recently there were quite a few tablature tab regressions, most of these are now fixed. See #270551: [EPIC] Tablature issues.

In reply to by Jojo-Schmitz

Status PR created active

Wow! This is quick, Jojo!

After posting my last reply, I saw your message asking for a sample score but I had other matters to attend.

I am attaching a score, rather contrived to condense in a single page of a single score all the styles I regularly use in a simulated but meaningful manner, namely and in order of definition in the score:

1) "Lyrics odd lines Italics"
2) "Note Number"
3) "Movement"
4) "Nigrae"
5) "Nigrae End"
6) "Nigrae Hi"
7) "Nigrae End Hi"
8) "Addition"
9) "Addition End"
10) "Bowing"

It is rare that a score uses ALL of them, possibly none so far, as 1) is used only in vocal scores, 4) - 7) mostly in Renaissance (or earlier) scores and 10) in viola da gamba score, so usually each score uses only a subset. However:

a) I can imagine a, say, Couperin score for voice with viola da gamba obbligata and some archaisms Couperin was fond of which would require ALL the above styles, even if I do not have it at hand right now.

b) having a standard set of styles to reuse regularly without further manipulation would simplify life significantly.

Of these styles, 1) can easily go, as this particular style is just "Lyrics" + Italics which in MS 3 can be done as easily as change of style through the Inspector. And 3) ("Movement") is rare enough to be done manually without too much hassle. For the other, when I need them, I need them badly.

Anyway, T H A N K a lot for spending time on this matter!!! I'll check your PR ASAP!

Attachment Size
Bitti_Sonata_4_score.mscz 88.24 KB
Status active PR created

Hmm, my PR looses the last one, your score has 3 more, Repeat Text, Figured Bass and Lyrics Verse, onle the first 12 survive, Bowing gets lost

I won't extend the PR to 13 user styles though, superstition ;-)
Maybe 16, at least a number that makes some sense in computers...

What do you think?

"Repeat Text" is a style that got lost between MuseScore 2 and 3. No idea what its purpose was, probably just got carried over from MuseScore 1 (which didn't have Repeat text left/right) without having a real use?