The FluidR3Mono Soundfont
As you know this has become the standard soundfont used for the 2.0 Betas.
I thought, therefore, that a link here to the latest version with all fixes would be good here.
Unfortunately my compile of Werner's compression tool is currently producing a corrupt file, so this is a link to the latest version of the SF2 file at my Dropbox account.
I shall lose some file space when my trial period ends in February, so I may have to switch to a Google Drive later.
Whatever, a link to the latest version of the .SF2 file will always be available from this thread.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m5iv56fzbyu2hrj/FluidR3Mono_GM2-9.zip?dl=0
Comments
I have raised the volume of the drumkits in response to some complaints that they are too quiet in the forums.
So here is the link to FluidR3Mono_GM2-10
https://www.dropbox.com/s/r7c4faqs0ibv7xq/FluidR3Mono_GM2-10.zip?dl=0
I have raised the sound levels of the drumkits en bloc so you must let me know if you think some of the other drum sounds need attenuating. If all is well I shall squash it down with Werner's compression tool for use with the release version of MuseScore 2.
In reply to I have raised the volume of by ChurchOrganist
My personal sense was that the bass drum was quiet relative to the other drums; this was more noticeable to me than any overall quietness in the drumset as a whole. But I'll check out the new version when I can.
Hi Michael
Some observations when I tested revision 10 in MuseScore 1.3:
Volume is different between instruments compared to the original SF2 (I may have said previously, but if deliberate, fine).
In some drum kits, bass drums seems overpowering compared to snare.
Bass and snare drums of the electronic kit are all left-panned.
Fantasia sounds different compared to the original SF2.
I can still hear clicking in some instruments (claves).
In reply to Hi Michael Some observations by chen lung
OK thanks Chen will look at the electronic kits.
I have changed the overall volume of some of the instruments due to complaints that they were too quiet. The problem with this is that you then have to go through the entire soundfont changing balances! Not sure we have it right yet :)
I have raised the volume level of the entire drumkits so can't understand why the bass drum should overpower the snare unless it wasn't properly balanced in the first place.
The change to Fantasia could be a result of the changes to Goblin Synth I had to make to prevent polyphony overflow - it uses some of the same sounds.
There should be no clicking at all - that was a problem with the original SF3 compression due to a fault in libsndfile. I will check that.
In reply to OK thanks Chen will look at by ChurchOrganist
I never personally had an issue with overall drumset level, but that's easy enough to tweak in the mixer. I do think the bass drum was and remains too quiet relative to snare, but I also know that my computer speakers lie to me as they reproduce high frequency sounds much better than low, and suspect the same is true for most other people. When I listen through headphones, I hear a better balance, but still a bit low in the bass drum - or maybe high in snare, or maybe both.
In reply to OK thanks Chen will look at by ChurchOrganist
I couldn't reproduce the other day, but I've just listened to some scores.
Clicking also occurs in the SF2 file with instruments such as claves and maracas.
In reply to I couldn't reproduce the by chen lung
Can you attach a specific score that reproduces the problem clearly, and describe *precisely* what and where to lsiten for the issue?
So far I don't hear anything unusual when I try it myself.
In reply to I couldn't reproduce the by chen lung
There is definitely no clicking in the soundfont itself.
If you were testing on 1.3 then there is a known issue of the Fluidsynth noise gate closing with an audible click on some sounds, notably short percussion sounds.
You can also hear this behaviour with other sounds which have a rest after a note in 1.3.
This is probably what you heard.
In reply to There is definitely no by ChurchOrganist
Yes, it was 1.3.
Thanks.
Whole at it, could you also fix the typo in accordion, please?
In reply to Whole at it, could you also by Jojo-Schmitz
Done in version 2.101 :)
I haven't checked all sounds, but some seem too left-panned (e.g. calliope, timpani).
Using MuseScore 2.0 Nightly Build 8c2401f - Mac 10.7.5.
In reply to I haven't checked all sounds, by chen lung
Calliope and timpani fixed - let me know if there are any more like this.
I don't know if it's a problem with the soundfont or MuseScore, but when loaded,
Bass & Lead' shows as this:
It's fine when looking at the list.
Using MuseScore 2.0 Nightly Build 8c2401f - Mac 10.7.5.
In reply to I don't know if it's a by chen lung
This appears to be a bug either in the soundfont architecture itself or in Viena which displays & wrongly.
I have changed it to +
Michael, I'm using the soundfont included in the latest nightly (a27e320 - Mac 10.7.5), and I don't like the volume between the drums - in Standard, the snare is too quiet compared to hi-hat, for example (please check in full).
In reply to Michael, I'm using the by chen lung
Just checked it Chen.
The balance between snare and hihats is OK in Viena, and the test piece I just tried in MuseScore 2 development versions seems OK too.
What kind of sound system are you using?
In reply to Just checked it Chen. The by ChurchOrganist
I'm just using my MacBook and MuseScore's built-in sound output - does that answer your question?
I've attached a example score (produced in 1.3) and a WAV exported from MuseScore - Zita1 is on, I think.
Using MuseScore 2.0 Nightly Build 4fe7cb1 - Mac 10.7.5.
In reply to I'm just using my MacBook and by chen lung
The hihats and snare sound in your wav are perfectly well balanced on my system.
Laptop speakers are not usually big enough to faithfully reproduce the lower frequency elements of a waveform, and so are inclined to emphasise high frequency waveforms like hihats.
I use a set of Logitech speakers with a small subwoofer unit. This is not as good quality as the reference sound system you have in studios, but is still able to reproduce bass frequencies down to a pure sine at around 30Hz.
Even budget quality headphones are much better at reproducing low end frequencies, so when checking sounds it is best to use headphones rather than laptop speakers.
In reply to I'm just using my MacBook and by chen lung
Sounds good to me even through my laptop speakers, although I guess they are considered better than average (still pretty tinny). Definitely sounds good through headphones to me.
But of course, some day, a mixer for the individual drums in a set so users can set their own preferences would be a nice thing.
In reply to Sounds good to me even by Marc Sabatella
A mixer for different drums would not be possible as General MIDI drums are all on the same channel.
The only way of controlling the volume for individual drums is by means of velocities as in a real world drumkit.
Sorry, I should have also said - even with audio-technica headphones (ATH-M35), the snare still sounds underwhelming to me. I prefer how it sounds in beta 2 (attached).
Since MuseScore is a notation program, I'm not really in favour of having controls for each drum. :)
In reply to Sorry, I should have also by chen lung
I don't understand.....
There have been no changes to the drumset balance since I raised the overall level of the drumsets in January.
In the clip you supply the snare is way way overpowering the hihats and the bass drum.
This makes me wonder if the default drumkit velocities have been changed?
In reply to I don't understand..... There by ChurchOrganist
Can someone answer this?
I don't like the drums - might have to use sf2 instead.
In reply to Can someone answer this? I by chen lung
I can say that your original file sounded perfectly well balanced to me. The second sounds ludicrous. I mean, it sounds fine as an example of how someone might play a rock beat where they are *deliberately* hitting the snare drum a lot harder than anything else, but that's very clearly not a normal balance between the drum.
The snare drum is clearly being hit a *ton* louder than anything else. To get that effect, you should need to use an accent mark, marking an sFz as well.
In reply to I can say that your original by Marc Sabatella
I'm really surprised everyone thinks it's fine! :)
It actually sounds as if the accent is on the bass drum, or the snare was hit using brush sticks. :P
In reply to I'm really surprised everyone by chen lung
Are we talking about the same files? The one labelled "Unbalanced drums" sounds normal to me - the way I'd expect a drum set to balance if one were *not* deliberately bashing the snare as hard as one can with both hands at once using lead sticks.
The one labelled "Drums [2.0 Beta 2] sounds like the way I'd expect a drum to balance if one *were* deliberately bashing the snare as hard as one can with both using lead sticks.
I think you've been listening to too much rock & roll if you think that's the normal level level of a snare drum in a drum kit :-)
Load it into Audacity and you'll *see* how crazy loud the snare drum in the "Drums [2.0 Beta 2]" is in comparison to everything else.
In reply to Are we talking about the same by Marc Sabatella
I think you're both right, and you're both wrong—the truth lies somewhere in between. Absolutely, in "Drums [2.0 Beta 2]" the snare drum is way too loud. Marc Sabatella is right about that. But chen lung is definitely right that in "Unbalanced drums", as he originally said, "the snare is too quiet compared to hi-hat". I think not only does the truth lie somewhere in between, but the ideal volume for that snare sound lies somewhere in between. ;-)
In reply to I think you're both right, by Isaac Weiss
Try other sets to compare - 'Power' is better, but maybe the snare there is actually a little too loud.
The crash cymbal sample sounds like it's within the range of possibilities for a drumset, but it sounds nothing at all like the cymbals in an orchestra or concert band. Could you replace just that one specific sample with something that works for either?
In reply to The crash cymbal sample by Isaac Weiss
Have you tried the Orchestral Cymbals?
Strangely you will find them in the Orchestral Drumkit :)
In reply to Have you tried the Orchestral by ChurchOrganist
I'm not sure how to get to the Orchestral Drumkit, but I did try adding a plain Cymbal part. It does sound slightly different from the "Crash 1" in the full drumset, but still not like a real pair of cymbals. (Also, much too quiet.)
I know people occasionally ask you to borrow a few samples from some other SoundFont. I won't ask you to do that. But I will ask you to just listen to the "Crash 1" from GeneralUser GS. Just create a drumset score, put in a row of crashes, and play it back with first your SoundFont at the top in the Synthesizer, and then GeneralUser. See what I'm driving at?
By the way, I hope I don't sound ungrateful—thank you tremendously for what you do.
In reply to I'm not sure how to get to by Isaac Weiss
You get to the Orchestral Drumkit from the mixer.
The default for all the drum sounds at present is the Standard Drumkit.
If you click the tab in the mixer in the same way you would for a normal instrument you will see a list of the available drumkits appear.
Scroll down till you see Orchestral Kit and then select it.
To my ears it is far more like a proper pair of orchestral/marching cymbals.
HTH
PS IMO it sounds better than the GeneralUserGS one
In reply to You get to the Orchestral by ChurchOrganist
Well, in the Orchestral Drumkit the crash sounds like a kettle drum. Yes, seriously. This applies no matter what the SoundFont, and I'm about to go file a bug report.
However, one of the notes identified as "Ride (Bell)" seems to be associated with the cymbal sound, and it is quite good. I actually still like the Standard Drumkit Crash 1 from GeneralUser best, but it's difficult to say why—maybe your Orchestral Drumkit cymbal sound stays too loud too long? Nonetheless, I can't say it's not a perfectly useable cymbal sound, and I withdraw my request for you to change it. Keep up the good work!
In reply to Well, in the Orchestral by Isaac Weiss
That is because FluidR3 mono is a GM level 2 soundfont, which increases the number of drumkits from 1 to the 9 GS drumkits with their associated key mappings.
The key mappings for these can be found here:
http://www.voidaudio.net/percussion.html#set2
If you are habitually using the Orchestral drumkit then you will need to define and save a drumset for it and load it for pieces using this.
In reply to That is because FluidR3 mono by ChurchOrganist
So, if the Orchestral Kit is such a pain to use, why not make the Standard Drumkit out of more multi-purpose sounds (e.g., a crash that works on a set or in an orchestra)?
In reply to So, if the Orchestral Kit is by Isaac Weiss
I don't know that this is really possible - the same sound doens't work for both.
Defining a drum set is not overly difficult - start with the Edit Drumset button in the drum toolbar (appear while editing a drum staff) and go from there. You define which displayed notes you want to map to which MIDI sounds.
It's unfortunate that it's a biut of a pain, but we dind't get to design General MIDI. We just have to live with it.
In reply to So, if the Orchestral Kit is by Isaac Weiss
Orchestral Drumset file attached.
Put this in your Styles directory.
You can then load it from the Edit Drumset dialogue when you wish to use an Orchestral Drumset
In reply to Orchestral Drumset file by ChurchOrganist
Could be something for us to distribute along with MuseScore 2.0
In reply to Could be something for us to by Jojo-Schmitz
Awesome. I'll include it in the source but unfortunately it's not easy to get to the DRM files currently.
We don't have any "orchestral" templates with percussion but we had we could also include this drumset.
Also in the future we could define the GM2 drumset and add a combo to switch to each of them.
In reply to Awesome. I'll include it in by [DELETED] 5
We could also attach it to the corresponding handbook page, http://musescore.org/en/node/36086?
In reply to Orchestral Drumset file by ChurchOrganist
Thank you! I'm trying to figure out exactly how this works. One thing I'm having issues with is that the notes seem to all be on Voice 1 in this drumset, even though according to "Edit Drumset" the bass drum is assigned to Voice 2. The notehead colors in the drum palette seem to keep changing—sometimes all blue, sometimes one green, sometimes more than one green. It's no real problem to manually change the voice of a note, but I'm guessing I'm missing something here again.
Also, if this is to be included with MuseScore, you'll want to have very clear documentation—this drumset is only meant to be used when Orchesral Drumkit is selected in the Mixer, and so forth.
In reply to Thank you! I'm trying to by Isaac Weiss
It is included now... 1f07acb
In reply to It is included now... 1f07acb by Jojo-Schmitz
Version 2.104 of the FluidR3Mono soundfont is now uploading to my dropbox account.
I've tweaked the tuning on one section of the violin, which will hopefully improve the tuning issues reported here http://musescore.org/en/node/50431
There is so much vibrato on the original samples, however, that it is almost impossible to tune them properly. I'm thinking in terms of remaking the violin instrument with fresh samples. That will have to wait until after I have finished the clarinet though.
Should be available for download in around 30 mins.
Download link https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
FluidR3Mono_GM.SF3 Intonation problem
While doing an arrangement for band, I'm having the alto and tenor saxes doing slow unison's and harmonies. I'm noticing that the intonation is off. The alto seems flatter than the tenor creating a somewhat disturbing playback. Anyone else notice this?
In reply to FluidR3Mono_GM.SF3 Intonation by Ashwin Batish
Any chance of attaching a score which demonstrates this?
My testing of this has so far yielded inconclusive results.
In reply to Any chance of attaching a by ChurchOrganist
Sure. Here are a few bars from my piece. I did a full sweep with a chromatic tuner and found numerous notes on the Alto samples that could use adjustment. I hear some of the samples sweep up to the actual note. This creates dissonance in the first part of the unison and harmonies.
In reply to Sure. Here are a few bars by Ashwin Batish
OK thanks Ashwin.
The problem is that the alto sax sample bends many of the notes from slightly flat up to pitch.
This is another candidate for eventual sample replacement I think.
In reply to OK thanks Ashwin. The problem by ChurchOrganist
Might be good to use auto tune to get them up to the pitch. I put them through a frequency counter and several of them remain flat after the initial bend up to pitch. Can you recommend a good sound font editor that I can try this on?
In reply to Might be good to use auto by Ashwin Batish
I doubt Autotune will be effective due to the vibrato in the samples.
You don't say which OS platform you are on but this Wikipedia article lists the most commonly used soundfont editors.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SoundFont#SoundFont_creation_software_.28…
In reply to I doubt Autotune will be by ChurchOrganist
Thanks. Not all the samples require correction. If I learn a bit more about this and can help, I will send you versions that you can consider. I also noticed the font is sf3 not sf2. sf3 being a compressed format. Q: will the sf2 font editor open an sf3 file?
In reply to Thanks. Not all the samples by Ashwin Batish
No, the .SF3 format was invented by Werner and is currently exclusively for MuseScore.
The latest .SF2 version is always available from my Dropbox account - the link is further up the page.
If we are going to have several people working on it, we will need to establish a version control system so that we aren't conflicting with each other.
I will think on how we can achieve this. But in the meantime feel free to experiment - these things are the epitome of the maxim "Many hands make light work".
In reply to No, the .SF3 format was by ChurchOrganist
Great, thanks.
In reply to OK thanks Ashwin. The problem by ChurchOrganist
See also #32776: Alto Saxophone Pitch Issue and #65376: Saxophone (especially alto) sounds bad.
In reply to Sure. Here are a few bars by Ashwin Batish
To me, it's details like this that contribute to the realism of FluidR3. I would hope than in an effort to "clean up" the sample, we don't de-humanize the overall effect to the point that it loses much of what to me sets it above so many others. I guess maybe different people value different things in a soundfont.
In reply to To me, it's details like this by Marc Sabatella
No argument there Marc. It's just that what is a beautiful ornamentation and approach for one style might not sound cool in another. So we are limited by the very fact that we have to cater to a vast range of applications and the safest approach seems to be a fast attack to correct pitch. Manipulations can then be applied via a synth's capabilities of producing vibrato and protamento etc. Many years back, I was experimenting with creating vocal sound samples and came across this same problem. On one hand it sounds cool when the vocalist (in this case my father) would put the nuances necessary for an emotion filled rendition but when I sampled them, the music could only be played for that one style and any kind of speed up was virtually impossible. I never released these samples because of this reason. Ideally, a font library with as many variations is really the way to go. Great program and sounds though. A++ for all the effort from you guys here :)
In reply to To me, it's details like this by Marc Sabatella
This is why I suspect that new samples would be better than trying to clean up the existing ones.
I will leave you to judge when the replacement clarinet is ready.
Unfortunately MuseScore still lacks the desired degree of control required to produce lifelike performances.
But if we can provide better MIDI controller support in the next major version that will be a big step forward towards achieving that.
In reply to To me, it's details like this by Marc Sabatella
Myself, I would put rather a high value on the synthesized instruments playing in tune together.
In reply to To me, it's details like this by Marc Sabatella
The thing is, "in tune" is itself a subjective thing - does it mean equal temperament for all instruments, even ones whose physical design is directly opposed to that? Show me a trumpet that produces equal tempered fifths and I'll show you one that somehow defies the laws of physics! And does "playing in tune" leave no room for the natural variations in pitch that actual human players produce - both in terms of vibrato and the natural variations that often occur on attack for wind instruments?
The goal of a perfectly controlled, perfectly in tune soundfont is often at odds with the goal of sounding *realistic*, because real human players are not perfectly controlled or perfectly in tune. Figuring out how to balance these is an art. I'm not saying I have any particualr skill in that art. I'm just expressing concern that relates not just to this but comments elsewhere about about preferring the "colorless" and entirely unrealsitc sound of some other soundfont, and would hate to see us move in that direction for our default soundfont. If you want pefectly in tune sine waves, I'm sure there are soudfonts out there for you, but I think many people value *realism*, and all the human quirks this entails. Smooth out rough edges, sure, but let's not lose sight of the big picture.
In reply to The thing is, "in tune" is by Marc Sabatella
But the fact is that real human players—at least, the good ones—can make themselves sound a lot better in tune than this. I confess I don't know how brass players do it, but that's beside the point—I'm not talking about tempered vs. just intonation here. I'm not arguing against overtones, or vibrato, or "quirks," per se. I'm simply stating that I'd rather the alto saxophones didn't play flat.
However, you raise an interesting point with "let's not lose sight of the big picture." I actually feel like I'm the one thinking about the big picture—as in, the many instruments playing as an ensemble, and not each one focused on doing its own thing, ignoring the others, and ignoring the conductor's desperate attempts to communicate that you've got to bring that pitch up—but there is a difference between the way, for instance, a solo violin plays, and the way one in an orchestra plays, both in terms of how one treats the intervals and many stylistic choices. It occurs to me that, if you come from a perspective of writing for a single alto saxophone, you might have no problems with the tuning as it is. Quite likely, each individual instrument sounds fine on its own. The thing is, I primarily want MuseScore's FluidR3 to be a good ensemble SoundFont—and it's not there yet.
In reply to But the fact is that real by Isaac Weiss
I appreciate your comments, but actually, I'd say you have quite the opposite impression as me. I feel many of the suggestions for improving the soundfont have been *too* based on listening to instruments in isolation and not enough on listening to the ensemble. But as I said before, different people can obviously have different perspectives. What one person perceives as "highly colored" in an objectionable way, another perceives as "realistc" in an agreeable way. What one person perceives as "more in tune" another perceives as "mechanical". What one person perceives as "too much vibrato", enough perceives as "human". And so on.
I'm not saying there is no room for improvement, but just listening to a few of my scores for small to large ensembles using the the sounfont from Finale Notepad that you've mentioned as finding better than FluidR3 - it's clearly we just have different perspectives, since I find it very significantly worse. And I suspect there would be similar disagreements on various points between any other two people participating in these discussions. That's fine, normal, and unavoidable, I suppose.
In reply to I appreciate your comments, by Marc Sabatella
Make no mistake, though, I mostly like the sound of FluidR3 better than that of synthgms—it's really only the issues of these certain violin or alto sax notes throwing things out of whack that I don't like. (Though I think there are other places, I haven't made the effort to isolate them.) My ideal SoundFont would be more like FluidR3—in fact, I'd say my ideal SoundFont would be FluidR3, tuned up a little bit.
In reply to Make no mistake, though, I by Isaac Weiss
Totally agree with Zack on this. My score sample sounds just plain bad in spots. It's not just on the sweep up but after the pitch reaches it's intended frequency. I have a frequency reader that shows many notes are just flat enough to matter. But .... and as Zack pointed out, I love the FluidR3's sound, attack etc. Much punchier than the Sibelius or Finale. I took an xml of my score and played it in both and it was nowhere close to what the Fluid was giving back. Sib/Fin came out sounding too delicate ;) FluidR3 sounded like I had the Tower of Power working for me! The Alto could use the help and I think would actually sound great. My tests show a 3 - 8 cent difference enough for it to stand out especially when doing unison long notes. That was the point I was trying to make.
In reply to I appreciate your comments, by Marc Sabatella
Fair enough, then I'd have we have no substantive disagreement, and sorry for the noise.
New version now available which fixes the range issue with recorders.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
In reply to New version now available by ChurchOrganist
thank you very much.
FluidR3Mono version 2.106 is now available - this fixes a range issue in the Alto Sax instrument.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
Version 2.107 uploading to Dropbox as I write.
This merges the mellow grand paino sound into the font in Bank 8.
Sadly you will have to scroll right through all the Bank 0 sounds before you get to it in the mixer.
Something we may need to address in a future version of MuseScore.
Dropbox Link (as ever) is.......
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
In reply to Version 2.107 uploading to by ChurchOrganist
While you're at it, even if it is quite an ugly sound to many (I'm OK with it), could you check "Choir Ahhs" for the velocity of C#4 to D#4, these seem quieter than the rest (the surrounding pitches).
See also https://musescore.org/en/node/58121
In reply to While you're at it, even if by Jojo-Schmitz
Done :)
The sample for these notes was about half the volume of the rest! I had to bring it up by 12db!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
In reply to Done :) The sample for these by ChurchOrganist
Thanks!
Just for good measure: do Voice Ohhs have the same issue?
They are still too quiet in the lower ranges of that new version (but better than befor), and sound pretty horrible elsewhere... May not be worth any efford though...
Hmm, not quite there with Choir Aahs, I think, listen to the attached score, and watch the meter of the synthesizer.
Some bass notes are a bit to quiet (E2-F#2, G3-A3) then C#4-D#4 quite a bit louder (too quiet before, now too loud), then G4-A4 quieter, C#5 too?
In reply to Thanks! Just for good by Jojo-Schmitz
Hmm - on checking the samples they are all over the place!
Gonna hafta start again with that instrument with normalised samples.
In reply to Hmm - on checking the samples by ChurchOrganist
Could upload a new version of the SF3 version too?
In reply to Could upload a new version of by [DELETED] 5
Version 2.107 is still the definitive version.
The changes to the Aah Choir in 2.108 have not solved the situation of imbalance in the samples. I am currently contemplating using samples from Mattias Westlund's Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra to redo that section, which, whilst not sounding like a genuine choir, at least are of a better quality than the current ones in Fluid.
In reply to Done :) The sample for these by ChurchOrganist
And another issue: contrabass is lacking notes above A3 (at least up to its professional range of G4). See https://musescore.org/en/node/58316
In reply to And another issue: contrabass by Jojo-Schmitz
Well they could always use the 'cello sound.
There aren't enough samples to take it up to G4 and sound convincing
It sound's like someone using a chainsaw with the current samples!
In reply to Well they could always use by ChurchOrganist
Hmm - maybe I could use the 'cello samples for the top octave.......
Watch this space :)
In reply to Hmm - maybe I could use the by ChurchOrganist
That worked a treat :)
I've rolled back to version 2.107 as the changes to the Aah choir haven't improved the overall standard of that instrument.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
Version 2.109 now available from Dropbox......
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
This fixes the range problem with the Contrabass by utilising 'Cello samples for the top two octaves.
Range is now MIDI #0 to #81 (C-1 to A5
Anything above that would require the use of harmonics something we do not yet have samples for.
Version 2.110 fixing panning position of Drawbar Organ now available
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
In reply to Version 2.110 fixing panning by ChurchOrganist
I used this 2.110 version and generated a sf2 version with sftools with 2.0.2 ... and
https://musescore.org/en/node/69281
https://musescore.org/en/node/69261
I will revert to the one from MuseScore 2.0.2, 2.107 and rebuilt a 2.0.2 package...
In reply to I used this 2.110 version and by [DELETED] 5
@lasconic:
Did you use the latest version of sftools?
(and possibly compiled with Qt 5.4?)
I tried to convert the 2.110 version with the latest sftools and I cannot hear the artifacts I hear with the released SF3.
Attached the link to the SF3 file I get from the conversion:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BxjayMZiuupOT2xoZnVlZHFCYU0
Ciao,
ABL
In reply to @lasconic: Did you use the by ABL
As far as I know yes, I was using the master of sftools directory, built with Qt 5.4, on Mac OSX.
My mistake was to trust the full toolchain and commit the sf3 just before the release. I shouldn't have done that.
In reply to As far as I know yes, I was by [DELETED] 5
I was trying to compile sftools under Mac to test if I can reproduce the sf3 corruption, but the compilation is failing with the error 'sndfile.h' not found. This is strange since I can compile MuseScore without problems (and it requires sndfile.h).
Do you perform additional stages other than
cmake CMakelists.txt && make
for the compilation of sftools under Mac?I tried also the "-G Xcode" and xcodebuild compilation, but I am still getting the same error.
In reply to I was trying to compile by ABL
Just cmake CMakelists.txt && make
It's also the same machine I build the Mac release on
Bit late I know, but the SF3 version of 2.110 is now up on my Google Drive....
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7cZM0RQwkwST2tiWWFiaTN0WFE&usp…
bump
Version 2.111 which fixes a glitch in one of the Ahh Choir samples by remapping that sample out now on Dropbox.....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
Version 2.112 of FLuidR3Mono just released....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
This fixes a range issue in the Baritone Sax Instrument which was badly affecting Sarrusophones.
SF3 version now up at my Google Drive......
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7cZM0RQwkwST2tiWWFiaTN0WFE
I thought you all would like to know that I am currently in the process of adding Temple Blocks to the soundfont, the samples for which have been very kindly provided by Ethan Winer.
As always the link to the SF2 development version is here.....
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
All done.
FluidR3Mono_GM 2.200 containing a 5 note Temple Blocks preset now uploaded to my dropbox account.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/soi5tj3s3113f26/FluidR3Mono_GM_sf2.zip?dl=0
The zip archive also contains a suggested .drm file for use with the new Temple Blocks Preset.
This is designed for a 2 line percussion staff.
To use I suggest you add the existing Temple Blocks instrument from the Instruments dialogue then go into the mixer, uncheck the Drumset Box and then choose Temple Blocks from the Patch List which you will find immediately after Gunshot in the list.
Now customise the staff to two line, enter Note Entry mode, press Edit Drumset and then load the supplied .drm file.
You can now enter the 5 blocks with the keyboard letters A to E
Enjoy.
PS Let me know if you need differently tuned sets of 5 and I will see what can be done to achieve this with time stretching the samples.
PPS SF3 version to follow once we'vee established it's working OK
In reply to All done. FluidR3Mono_GM by ChurchOrganist
Are you able to create some sort of tutorial video for this, or leave a link to an already existing tutorial video? I don't know what I did wrong, but instead of having 5 different temple block sounds, I have a vibraslap, a ride cymbal, the two default temple block sounds, and one new temple block sound (in order from lowest pitch to highest pitch note).
Please see this thread........
https://musescore.org/en/node/94611
For the latest and permanent download link for this.
In reply to Please see this by ChurchOrganist
I tried this in MS4.1, and it said something like "version too old", but I tried it anyway. It did provide 5 notes, from A to E, but they sounded like a rachet, a suspended cymbal, and three bongos or tenor drums. Any advice?
In reply to I tried this in MS4.1, and… by Dougy Drumz
Can you explain more about why you’re trying to use this ancient, long-obsolete file? What is the actual problem. You are trying to solve?
In reply to Can you explain more about… by Marc Sabatella
5 Temple Blocks.
In reply to 5 Temple Blocks. by Dougy Drumz
Did you install the soundfont and select it in the mixer? That’s the important part.
Then you can define your own drumset for it following the instructions in the Handbook.
In reply to Did you install the… by Marc Sabatella
Yes. I installed FluidR3Mono_GM2-315.sf2, selected it the mixer, and and used TempleBlocks.drm for my drumset. The drumset numbers map to the temple block codes in the soundfont. In the soundfont they sound great. I attached the drumset file and an example. I think the sound file is too big, Please let me know what I'm missing.
In reply to Yes. I installed… by Dougy Drumz
Do I need to extract out just the temple blocks from FluidR3Mono_GM2-315.sf2?
In reply to Do I need to extract out… by Dougy Drumz
I got it. I used Sforzando to bring the temple blocks, and everything worked fine.
Thanks!
In reply to Do I need to extract out… by Dougy Drumz
FluidR3Mono_GM2-315.sf2 temple blocks have a problem. There's noise after C and D (not as pronounced). The longer the note, the more you hear it. Anybody know how to fix that? Example attached.
In reply to FluidR3Mono_GM2-315.sf2… by Dougy Drumz
Attachment.
In reply to FluidR3Mono_GM2-315.sf2… by Dougy Drumz
Never mind. I discovered it's an issue with my Bluetooth hearing aids. When I listened directly from my laptop speaker, the sound went away.
In reply to Never mind. I discovered it… by Dougy Drumz
Let me retract my "never mind." It's still there, I just can't hear it well without my hearing aids ;)
In reply to I tried this in MS4.1, and… by Dougy Drumz
In reply to Please see this by ChurchOrganist
Ignore.
Version 2.203 is now released in sf2 version which imroves some problems with the timpani.
The Timpani are still not wholly successful largely due to the instrument comprising only 3 samples all of which are very close together.
I am working on eventual replacements.
Link to the latest version here.....
https://musescore.org/en/node/94611
Version 2.304 is now available in SF2 format.
SF3 version will be available later today.
This now includes Mike Schorsch's Marching Percussion.
As ever available here......
https://musescore.org/en/node/94611
EDIT - SF3 version now up
In reply to Version 2.304 is now by ChurchOrganist
Version 2.304 will be the default soundfont in Musescore 2.0.3. It's now commited on the 2.0.3 branch and on master. Next nightlies will use it.
Version 2.305 which fixes decay/release envelope issues in the Orchestral drumset is now available from Google Drive in both SF2 and SF3 versions.
As usual it is available here......
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7cZM0RQwkwST2tiWWFiaTN0WFE&usp…
In reply to Version 2.305 which fixes by ChurchOrganist
Just curious- When you make improvements to the FluidR3 soundfont, are they also incorporated in the MuseScore 2.02 version that one downloads from the musescore.org home page?
Thanks very much for your on-going work on this, it is very much appreciated!
In reply to Version 2.305 which fixes by ChurchOrganist
Do you have more stuff you will work on a short notice? I just committed 2.304 and the git repo just go 14MB bigger for everyone... so it would be good if I don't commit this one if you have something else.
In reply to Do you have more stuff you by [DELETED] 5
There is nothing in the pipeline.
2.304 was actually a stopgap to make sure Marching Percussion got into MuseScore 2.0.3 as per https://musescore.org/en/node/101506#comment-460621
In reply to There is nothing in the by ChurchOrganist
IOW an attempt to hit the same deadline as that for translators.
In reply to Do you have more stuff you by [DELETED] 5
woule moving soundfont (and other large files) into a submodule be a way to deal with this?
In reply to woule moving soundfont (and by Jojo-Schmitz
See #103996: Move big files to git LFS
In reply to Version 2.305 which fixes by ChurchOrganist
@ChuchOrganist: you may want to habe a look at my minur changes to the 2 text files (UTF8 issues with © and a missing linefeed at the end), in https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/2492, and incorporate these in into your?
In reply to @ChuchOrganist: you may want by Jojo-Schmitz
Done :)
In reply to Done :) by ChurchOrganist
for 2.306 I assume?
In reply to for 2.306 I assume? by Jojo-Schmitz
Yup
In reply to Version 2.305 which fixes by ChurchOrganist
See https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/2502
Edit: it is merged
Version 2.307 is now up on Google Drive.
This provides a temporary fix for the violin intonation problem on B6.
There is also some incomplete work on the Marching Percussion Tenor Drums
Available here as usual.......
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7cZM0RQwkwST2tiWWFiaTN0WFE&usp…
Please note only the SF2 version has been updated
Bump :)
Updated SF2 version available here......
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7cZM0RQwkwST2tiWWFiaTN0WFE&usp…
Version 2.310 is uploading to Google Drive as I write and will be available by lunchtime.
This version incorporates improvements to the Marching Tenors instrument, including a new keyboard mapping, details of which you can find in the MarchingTenorsKeymap.drm file included in the ZIP file.
As always it is available from.....
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B7cZM0RQwkwST2tiWWFiaTN0WFE&usp…
NB Only the SF2 file has been updated.
FluidR3Mono SF2 version 2.312 is now available from Google Drive
This fixes tuning issues in the Bassoon, and there is also a fix for a bad release envelope in Guitar Harmonics.
As always it is available from.....
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B7cZM0RQwkwST2tiWWFiaTN0WFE?usp…
It is some time since I produced an updated SF3 version.
That will be rectified shortly.
In reply to FluidR3Mono SF2 version 2.312 by ChurchOrganist
I've made a few adjustments to the new 2.312 version of FluidR3Mono SF2 (using Viena):
1. Assigned correct lower (pitch) range limit to all orchestral instruments.
2. Add 0.025 sec global vol. env. release to clarinet to remove clicking.
3. Shorter vol. env. release on harp (8 secs down to 3).
4. Added various vol. env. releases on some drumkit and orchestral percussion instruments to prevent playback being cut-off. Short release (0.025 s) to snare rolls.
5. Assigned exclusive group numbers to unassigned hats and triangles (in orch. percussion).
The amended soundfont is at: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxj02NhJ9Gc_dGtDWTB1bkRWLUk (but only for the next day or so).
It's not for general download as it hasn't been checked and approved by ChurchOrganist yet. Hopefully some of the alterations, at least, may prove to be useful.
In reply to I've made a few adjustments by geetar
Thank you for your contribution!
1 It's not a good idea to limit the ranges of the presets, as many if them are used for more than one instrument, and also users may use them to represent voices. Limiting the ranges in this way may well nerf pieces already on MuseScore.com.
2-3 Envelope changes were something on my list of things todo, so tyvm for saving me the job!
5 I'm not sure what this means? When I looked at the Orchestral Drumkit there seemed to be no difference between 2.312 and your changed version?
Incidentally, if you want to continue to help with soundfont maintenance versioning is now enabled via GitHub LFS. You will need to fork my FluidR3Mono_GM repository and then install Git LFS and Desktop GitHub
My repository.....
https://github.com/ChurchOrganist/FluidR3Mono_GM
Desktop GitHub
https://desktop.github.com/
Git LFS
https://git-lfs.github.com/
In reply to Thank you for your by ChurchOrganist
OK. I've restored the ranges as before. All other fixes as described above. Here's the new link (for the next day or so): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxj02NhJ9Gc_ZTRfRFd0YVkzQW8
The SF3 version of FluidR3Mono_GM version 2.312 is now up on Google Drive.
There is currently an issue in the harmonica which I have only been able to improve, not eliminate entirely. This is a problem in the SF3 conversion code, so out of my control!
The file, as ever, is here.....
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7cZM0RQwkwSQk05elFMZkFFYWs/view?usp=s…
Happy Christmas!
SF2 Version 2.313 which remaps the Marching Bass Samples to fit on a 61 note keyboard and adds the Marching Bass Simultaneous Hit is now up on Google Drive.
Please Note: The Marching Bass implementation in MuseScore 2.0.3 will not work with this version. A DRM file with the new keymappings is included in the Zip file. You will need to save this to your Styles folder and then load it using the Edit Drumset dialogue.
A new SF3 version will be available soon.
In reply to SF2 Version 2.313 which by ChurchOrganist
Assuming the latest version of the the SoundFont is in MuseScore 2.1, how will existing scores be managed?
In reply to The Marching Bass by Isaac Weiss
I guess they will have to be revised.
In reply to I guess they will have to be by ChurchOrganist
Automatically? Then someone will have to write some code for import.
In reply to Automatically? Then someone by Isaac Weiss
Only if that is possible without changing the file formal (of score and instruments.xml) in a way that is backward compatible to 2.0.0+
In reply to Only if that is possible by Jojo-Schmitz
Discussion continued at https://musescore.org/en/node/165281#comment-640526.
A late comment:
I appreciate the efforts made towards improving the sound (e.g. the popping issue), but I've never really been 100% satisfied with it (I'm not an expert, so bare with me) - I'll talk about each matter separately.
About drums, it could be the balance between them. For this comparison, I’ll use Standard:
I'm not totally sure yet between the skinned drums (e.g. bass, snare), but the cymbal and hi-hat seem louder (too prominent). I don't think I'm the only one (link ).
To contextualise, I produce band scores; they tend to consist of drumkits on one stave.
I attach the following:
mscz: produced in 2.0.3.1
WAV: exported from MuseScore - with and without Zita1
AIF: produced by exporting a MIDI (also attached), opening in QuickTime Pro 7.6.6 and exporting the AIF
In reply to A late comment: I appreciate by chen lung
Is that the same soundfont? I'm assuming not.
The issue to me is that different genres have different expectations here. Jazz is normally more reliant on ride and hat than rock. So when you say "band" I assume you mean rock. We do have the ability to provide different kids. Maybe we should take advantage of that more.
In reply to Is that the same soundfont? by Marc Sabatella
I meant to say, I'm using the revision of FluidR3Mono_GM.SF3 from 20 December 2016.
I think you have a point about genre, but a number of them I wouldn't think of as being hard rock (or even rock).
See also https://musescore.org/en/node/185176
Hey ChurchOrganist. Would you please like to use this version of the FluidR3 SoundFont?
https://musescore.org/en/node/185176
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B2I_8bgGH-Q3Z0YyVGJncnAxYTQ
In reply to Hey ChurchOrganist. Would you by Arianna2001
My current plan for MuseScore 2.1 is to use ChurchOrganist's soundfont version 2.312 in order to avoid https://musescore.org/en/node/165281#comment-641176
It would be good to have some feedback on Arianna's version, so we could assess it for the next version. I would really like a community effort to make a definitive sfz orchestra for MuseScore 3. ChurchOrganist is busy but his repository at github was a good start.
It may be naive but the way I would do it is as follow:
1. List the instruments from FluidR3 and convert it to SFZ.
2. For each instrument, assess its pro and cons. Pro could be "not enough samples", "bad quality", "balancing", "wrong loop" you name it. Quality could be "good for the size", "best sound compared to other soundfont" etc...
3. For each instrument, find alternative high quality sample if necessary
4. Once we decided on the best samples. Define loop, write or get sfz file. Tweak them for best result.
In reply to My current plan for MuseScore by [DELETED] 5
Might be naive, but I suffer the same naivete then :-). I know one potential shortfall with this approach so that if sample come from widely different source, they might sound good individually but not together due to difference in recording techniques etc. I don't know that this is really a big concern in practice though.
BTW, for now, without knowing more about which specific sounds have been changed in which version of the soundfont, I don't think it is even worth asking which version of the soundfont to use - we should continue to use the latest version one we have, which is to say Michael's version. But we should indeed be applying the process above to compare that and Arianna's to see which of the two sounds best instrument by instrument. And we should really have a lsit of which instruments have modified and what way to help guide us in making the selections.
In reply to My current plan for MuseScore by [DELETED] 5
I see a couple of barriers to this, though, which I first asked about at https://musescore.org/en/user/527826/blog/2016/07/24/weekly-status-upda… and have raised once or twice since.
In reply to I see a couple of barriers to by Isaac Weiss
I don't understand. Doesn't the SFZ format allow you to include multiple instruments in a single file?
In reply to I don't understand. Doesn't by Marc Sabatella
None of the ones I've seen do. Could the individual instruments then be accessed in the Mixer? And what about leaving GM behind?
In reply to I don't understand. Doesn't by Marc Sabatella
It does but only as key mappings
You cannot select a program like you can with an SF2
In reply to It does but only as key by ChurchOrganist
Ah. I wonder if there is any way to convince the "powers that be" regarding this format to consider extensions? Or to develop one ourselves? Or develop our own SFZ manager that knows the mapping from GM sounds to SFZ files (for this particular set of sounds, anyhow) and loads them on an as-needed basis? That's probably the right solution.
In reply to Ah. I wonder if there is any by Marc Sabatella
Are we talking about exporting settings from the SF2 (3) file to the ".sfz" text file?
Or are we talking about exporting the samples in the sound font?
Or both? (complete SFZ: Folders, Samples, and .sfz adjustment files. )
Michael,
When using the Polysynth option, there is a scratching noise (like a needle on audio vinyl) after a note has sounded.
Can you advise?
MuseScore 2.1 Nightly Build 8526f62 and FluidR3Mono_GM-sf3 2.312 - Mac 10.11.6.
In reply to Michael, When using the by chen lung
Not just with fluid, but with different Soundfonts.
I think there's something wrong with the synthesizer itself.
As you describe it, the crackling sound on old plates.
And if there's a reverb, it's more uncomfortable.
FluidR3Mono_GM Version 2.315 is now available from Google Drive.......
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7cZM0RQwkwSZVJPQlUyTkRwY0E/view?usp=s…
Currently only the SF2 version has been updated.
This fixess keymapping problems with the Marching Tenors.
The Marching Percussion section now has two sets of Tenor Drums - one with the old mapping and one with the new, and defaults to the old mapping.
There are also now two sets of Bass Drums - the original key mapping, and a new key mapping which also includes a simultaneous hit.
I added the new drums to the synth and put them in the mixer to do an A/B comparison. MS prompt to put in directory, add to top of Fluid list etc. was the usual. Levels the same But both new drums didn't sound.
The ICMT chunk contains “DO NOT REDISTRIBUTE ANY OF THESE SAMPLES” which kinda is the contrary of the MIT licence. Would you remove this remark from it?
I’m wondering if we shouldn’t add the whole licence to the ICOP chunk (and then embed its content into the generated WAV, MP3, etc. files, like we do with non-sound fonts and PDF files)…
Update: I made this into a feature request “idea”: https://musescore.org/en/node/270099
Turns out ICOP is too small (255 ASCII bytes, at most), but ICMT is large enough (65535 bytes).